Author Topic: The heresy of Lumen Gentium: Subsistit in (Read 30040 times)

JPaul · « **Reply #50 on:** July 09, 2011, 10:38:41 PM »

Quote from: ajpirc

I always talk about those neo-Catholics from CAF here on CathInfo and I'm going to talk a little bit more about them in this next post. I actually got suspended for two weeks for apparently telling Catholics to avoid reading the new Catechism of the Catholic Church. But anyway, they always talk about how our Protestant "seperated bretheren" aren't heretics because they were born into heretical communities through no fault of their own without knowing and doubting the true Faith. I had always believed them. Why do traditionals call those Protestants heretics if they were born into these communities?

Well, are the claims of the Church and the Holy Religion unavailable to them?
Does not God give each man an intellect and the ability to discern the truth?
And does He not place the obligation upon men that they are to use these gifts and the grace which he initially gives them to find Him and His Church?

Most who remain Protestant are those who refuse God's grace and will not investigate the Church because Protestantism suits them. They may not be causally hertical but they are effectively heretics in that they claim to be Christian but have created "another Christ" for themselves.

Every man who is born is obliged to find God and to obey Him. Those who do not end up outside of His Church and salvation.

ajpirc · « **Reply #51 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:36:40 AM »

Quote from: J.Paul

Quote from: ajpirc
I always talk about those neo-Catholics from CAF here on CathInfo and I'm going to talk a little bit more about them in this next post. I actually got suspended for two weeks for apparently telling Catholics to avoid reading the new Catechism of the Catholic Church. But anyway, they always talk about how our Protestant "seperated bretheren" aren't heretics because they were born into heretical communities through no fault of their own without knowing and doubting the true Faith. I had always believed them. Why do traditionals call those Protestants heretics if they were born into these communities?

Well, are the claims of the Church and the Holy Religion unavailable to them?
Does not God give each man an intellect and the ability to discern the truth?
And does He not place the obligation upon men that they are to use these gifts and the grace which he initially gives them to find Him and His Church?

Most who remain Protestant are those who refuse God's grace and will not investigate the Church because Protestantism suits them. They may not be causally hertical but they are effectively heretics in that they claim to be Christian but have created "another Christ" for themselves.

Every man who is born is obliged to find God and to obey Him. Those who do not end up outside of His Church and salvation.

So even though one practices heresy, does that make them a heretic?

Daegus · « **Reply #52 on:** July 10, 2011, 09:55:53 AM »

All Protestants are heretics insofar as they deny the true Church of Christ and her Magisterium. There is not a doubt in my mind that the vast majority of Protestants will go to Hell because their religion bears no grace whatsoever. After they are baptised and are justified for the very first time, if they commit even 1 mortal sin they lose the state of grace and will go straight to Hell if they die.

The most horrible thing about this is that, as someone else said, Protestants don't care to find the truth because Protestantism suits them. It is much harder to be a Catholic than it is a Protestant, because the Protestant false religion encourages and teaches spiritual lethargy. Most Protestants don't seem to care about whether or not our faith is true. All they want is to say 1 stupid prayer that means virtually nothing to Christ and then they're "saved". They've sprung forth many heresies and historical fables about the Church, indicating that they don't care about the Church.

ajpirc · « **Reply #53 on:** July 10, 2011, 04:27:54 PM »

Quote from: ajpirc

Here is one that confuses me though:

Quote
Among these figures the ark of Noah holds a conspicuous place. It was built by the command of God, in order that there might be no doubt that it was a symbol of the Church, which God has so constituted that all who enter therein through Baptism, may be safe from danger of eternal death, while such as are outside the Church, like those who were not in the ark, are overwhelmed by their own crimes.

It says that they enter the Church through Baptism. How does someone leave the Church because you can't be "unbaptized?" If one wants to re-enter the Church, how can they if baptism is the door into the Church? We can't be re-baptized either. I don't understand this.

Could you answer this for me, Daegus?

ajpirc · « **Reply #54 on:** July 11, 2011, 02:49:38 PM »

The definition of no salvation outside the Catholic Church:

Does it mean that one must fully be inside the Church?

or

Does it mean that salvation only comes from Christ, through the Catholic Church?