Author Topic: The Fruits of Baptism of Desire (Read 3125 times)

Cantarella · « **Reply #60 on:** July 31, 2016, 09:29:39 PM »

More modern fruits of BOD and how it dilutes EENS by spreading the following errors:

Quote

1.One can be saved outside the Church.

2.One can be saved without having the Catholic Faith.

3.Baptism is not necessary for salvation.

4.To confess the supremacy and infallibility of the Roman Church and of the Roman Pontiff is not necessary for salvation.

5.One can be saved without submitting personally to the authority of the Roman Pontiff.

6.Ignorance of Christ and His Church excuses one from all fault and confers justification and salvation.

7.One can be saved who dies ignorant of Christ and His Church.

8.One can be saved who dies hating Christ and His Church.

9.God, of His Supreme Goodness and Mercy, would not permit anyone to be punished eternally unless he had incurred the guilt of voluntary sin.

10.A man is sure of his salvation once he is justified.

11.One can be saved by merely an implicit desire for Baptism.

12.There are two Churches, the one visible, the other invisible.

13.There are two kinds of membership in the Church.

14.Membership in the Church can be invisible or even unconscious.

15.To know and love the Blessed Virgin is not necessary for salvation.

.....And then we ask, how is it we got to the point of Vatican II ecclesiology when these errors are widely promoted and believed by all, even by the vast majority of "Traditionalists"? These false trads do not have a leg to stand on condemning the many "heresies" of Vatican II Council when they themselves hold the same heresies at the core.

Cantarella · « **Reply #61 on:** July 31, 2016, 09:53:55 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

St. Ambrose on Valentinian is extremely ambiguous and unclear. Before the days of instant news via Twitter, the details surrounding Valentinian's death could well have been unclear. Perhaps St. Ambrose believed that someone close to Valentinian could have administered emergency Baptism or else it may have been administered by angels.

I think so too. I believe that that was St. Ambrose meant when he says referring to the catechumen: "Did not he obtain the grace which he desired? Did he not obtain what he asked for?...certainly because he asked for it he obtained it" What did the catechumen Valentinian wanted? to enter the Church. This is only possible through the Sacrament of Baptism. Because there cannot be any "accidents" in the hand of God when someone just dies unexpectedly before his time (as God could not do anything to prevent it), we can conclude that Valentinian received the water Baptism somewhere, somehow, before he died. There is no reason why God in his Infinite providence could not provide the catechumen with which he so much desired, as St. Ambrose says.

Cantarella · « **Reply #62 on:** July 31, 2016, 10:15:29 PM »

Even in the very first part of that speech, St. Ambrose confirms that BOD was actually not a Catholic doctrine taught everywhere in the early Church as the BODers falsely pretend. He says to his audience: "but I hear you grieve because he did not receive the Sacrament of Baptism"... Now...why would they grieve about this? the answer is obvious: because they firmly believed, as they had been correctly taught, that catechumens are still not part of the Church and that to enter Heaven is necessary to receive the water Baptism. They grieved because they knew that Valentinian was oriented to Hell if dying in such an unbaptized state given that such was the Catholic doctrine taught everywhere since Our Lord walked the earth. In other words, their grief was because they took the words of Jesus Christ in John 3:5 literally, as it is the correct position of the Church.

And after all this misunderstanding, we have St. Ambrose undoubtedly defending the necessity of water Baptism for salvation, even for catechumens, as one of the Fathers who were more vehement about it. In The Mysteriies he says:

Quote from: St. Ambrose

One is the Baptism the Church administers: the Baptism of water and the Holy Ghost...with which catechumens need to be baptized...Nor, again, is there the Sacrament of Regeneration without water: “For except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” John 3:5 Now, even the catechumen believes in the cross of the Lord Jesus, wherewith he too is signed; but unless he be baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, he cannot receive remission of sins nor gain the gift of spiritual grace.

happenby · « **Reply #63 on:** August 01, 2016, 12:51:14 AM »

Quote from: Cantarella

More modern fruits of BOD and how it dilutes EENS by spreading the following errors:

Quote

1.One can be saved outside the Church.

2.One can be saved without having the Catholic Faith.

3.Baptism is not necessary for salvation.

4.To confess the supremacy and infallibility of the Roman Church and of the Roman Pontiff is not necessary for salvation.

5.One can be saved without submitting personally to the authority of the Roman Pontiff.

6.Ignorance of Christ and His Church excuses one from all fault and confers justification and salvation.

7.One can be saved who dies ignorant of Christ and His Church.

8.One can be saved who dies hating Christ and His Church.

9.God, of His Supreme Goodness and Mercy, would not permit anyone to be punished eternally unless he had incurred the guilt of voluntary sin.

10.A man is sure of his salvation once he is justified.

11.One can be saved by merely an implicit desire for Baptism.

12.There are two Churches, the one visible, the other invisible.

13.There are two kinds of membership in the Church.

14.Membership in the Church can be invisible or even unconscious.

15.To know and love the Blessed Virgin is not necessary for salvation.

.....And then we ask, how is it we got to the point of Vatican II ecclesiology when these errors are widely promoted and believed by all, even by the vast majority of "Traditionalists"? These false trads do not have a leg to stand on condemning the many "heresies" of Vatican II Council when they themselves hold the same heresies at the core.

Yes, these notions are all widely accepted although wording is different so the heresy doesn't appear this brazen and they use all manner of fancy explanations to support each so that they don't exactly contradict Church teaching as these clearly show. Yet boders absolutely do contradict Church teaching. And they say with their lips, "I'm not contradicting anything!" while they contradict everything. And they think we are all supposed to drop our brains off at the laundromat for wringing out and respond, "Aye!"

NO!!!

I actually heard a resistance priest tell my daughter in law (who was about to be received into the Church and anxious about getting it done) The priest said: "Its wonderful you are coming into the Church, but you needn't worry. If you died today, your desire is the same thing as the baptism. YOU ALREADY HAVE IT!"