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Author Topic: The Errors of the Diamond Bros  (Read 288 times)

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Offline SkidRowCatholic

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The Errors of the Diamond Bros
« on: Today at 08:55:16 AM »
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  • There seems to be a lot of pissing and moaning about the Diamonds recently...

    I am curious what you think are the ACTUAL errors they have.

    i.e., They say (I know they have changed their position over the years) that R&R is heretical/schismatic because amounts to a practical denial of papal infallibility and the indefectible nature of the Church. They say R&R are in schism because they insist Bergs, Pervert, etc. are legitimate Pope's - but they refuse to submit to him.

    Is it simply that their version of what the crisis is doesn't follow your own?

    Or, is there an actual heresy you think they have, or any way someone could qualify how they are in schism according to the definition?

    So you might be like, "They deny indefectability - see here this theologian said there has to be a Pope every minute of the day and "X" amount of cardinals and bishops."

    Or you might be like, "They are schismatics because they don't acknowledge Leo as the head of the Church - they need to acknowledge him as Pope and then resist him in everything and shun him as a heretic like me!"

    Do, you have anything substantial to accuse them of that the theology can back up - or do you just not like them very much because they seem arrogant, prideful, they hurt your feelings, etc.?

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #1 on: Today at 09:32:25 AM »
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  • Here is a website with tons of videos etc., dedicated to "exposing" Fred and his brother Bob - by one who should know....


    Quote
    Why I Quit MhFM: by Jeremy Austin

    No Father could love or be more proud of a son than I am of Jeremy.

    In 2011, at the age of 22, Jeremy converted to the Dimond Brother’s unique form of Sedevacantism and separated himself from his family and friends; abandoning / rejecting any and all that refused to submit and conform to the ridged traditional Roman Catholic theological end-times dictates imposed by the MhFM.

    Yet, to his credit, during his long 7 year journey through the muddled schismatic swap of Sedevacantism he continued his search for the truth which, thank God, eventually led him to the conclusion that the Dimond’s “road to salvation” was actually a “dead end street”. And, with that realization, Jeremy “Quit” the MhFM, and explains the reasons for that break on his website and in a YouTube video that you may wish to access. He wrote:

        "I was there, behind the scenes of the channel VaticanCatholique. There are things you really need to learn about the monks of MHFM..."
        http://www.la-foi.fr/mhfm/en/index.aspx.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #2 on: Today at 09:36:38 AM »
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  • We all know about that.

    I didn't ask what others say about them - I asked, "what you think are the ACTUAL errors they have Do, you have anything substantial to accuse them of that the theology can back up ? "


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #3 on: Today at 01:49:46 PM »
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  • We all know about that.

    I didn't ask what others say about them - I asked, "what you think are the ACTUAL errors they have Do, you have anything substantial to accuse them of that the theology can back up ? "

    Yeah, Stubborn is dishonest.  He actually agrees with most of what they say about EENS, but hates them for being SVs.

    I do have some disagreements with them, which I can detail here at some point.  No, I don't shill for them, as Matthew alleged, in yet another misdirectly by way of false ad hominem.  If I could find some of the e-mails they sent me a couple years ago excoriating me, people would realize it's not true.

    But I get bashed on all sides, since I don't blindly follow any group, any camp, any "position", nothing.  I am entirely eclectic and make up my mind seeking only the truth.  So I'll agree and disagree with oh, 100% of all Trad clergy, agree about some things, disagree about others.  So I'll agree with SVs on a lot of things, at which time they're my "best friends" here, but then disagree with them ... at which point I'm attacked for being an R&R-defending shill, and of course vice versa.

    I honestly really don't care about what any Trad group or Trad leader say about any particular subject.  I have great respect for Bishop Williamson, spent many hours cleaning up his old class lectures and posting them online, since I consider them invaluable, masterpieces in Catholic education ... but then don't ask me about what I think of his views on Novus Ordo miracles, the New Mass, Garabandal, Valtorta, or EENS.  Oh, you disagree with him on Novus Ordo miracles ... you must be "True Resistance", a Hewkonian.  Well, no ... I disagree with about a dozen things they say, while agreeing with a dozen others.  I disagree with the ENTIRE Resistance, True or False, about their views on SVism ... except for with Father Chazal (with whose ecclesiology I can find no fault), or with Father Ringrose, but, well, I don't know ... maybe he's know ex-Fake-or-ex-True-Resistance.  Who knows?  And, quite frankly, I don't care.

    I think that a lot of Resistance views are wrong, but that doesn't stop me from helping Father Onuorah raise funds and sending him Mass intentions.

    I can go on and on, but I simply don't accept lables, groups, camps, positions ... nor will I "circle the wagons" to defend my little sub-sect of Traditionalism.  I look at one issue and one problem at a time, and send my intellect off in pursuit of the actual truth, caring nothing for what others believe, only about their arguments and reasons for why they believe it and whether they're sound or not sound.

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #4 on: Today at 01:53:14 PM »
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  • I can go on and on, but I simply don't accept lables, groups, camps, positions ... nor will I "circle the wagons" to defend my little sub-sect of Traditionalism.  I look at one issue and one problem at a time, and send my intellect off in pursuit of the actual truth, caring nothing for what others believe, only about their arguments and reasons for why they believe it and whether they're sound or not sound.
    And as obnoxious as I find you - that is why I actually have respect for you. 

    It isn't because of your intellect, or your accomplishments. 

    It is because most of the time you come across to me as a "seeker and lover of the truth" - no matter where it may lead.


    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #5 on: Today at 02:05:07 PM »
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  • Yeah, Stubborn is dishonest.  He actually agrees with most of what they say about EENS, but hates them for being SVs.
    No, I do not hate them - nor do I hate anyone, not even you. What I do hate BECAUSE I believe it is a grave error, is that they scandalize with their sedeism many of those struggling in this crisis with invincible ignorance about our holy religion who listen to them and are easily hooked and reeled in, and even many of those who should know better get hooked, like yourself for example.

    Fred and Bob exemplify the reason, and far as I'm concerned, are the poster child as to why traditionally, laymen were not allowed to preach on theological subjects. 
       
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #6 on: Today at 02:23:59 PM »
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  • BECAUSE I believe it is a grave error, is that they scandalize with their sedeism many of those struggling in this crisis with invincible ignorance about our holy religion who listen to them and are easily hooked and reeled in...
    OK.

    Maybe here is something we can work with...

    What is this "grave error and scandal" you are referring to - put some teeth to your assertion please, by citing the doctrinal and/or moral errors they hold - and produce magisterial sources to back up your assertion.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #7 on: Today at 02:31:14 PM »
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  • OK.

    Maybe here is something we can work with...

    What is this "grave error and scandal" you are referring to - put some teeth to your assertion please, by citing the doctrinal and/or moral errors they hold - and produce magisterial sources to back up your assertion.

    "...Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." - Unam Sanctam, Pope Boniface VIII - 1302 

    Note that it does not say: "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff unless you do not believe he is the Roman Pontiff."
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #8 on: Today at 02:38:09 PM »
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  • "...Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." - Unam Sanctam, Pope Boniface VIII - 1302
    Never heard them deny that.

    In fact, I think they often cite it as the teaching.

    But if you mean it like we all know you do - then that applies to ALL those who hold the Holy See is currently vacant...

    So, if that is all you have - then it is a nothing-burger-of-epic-proportions - as we all know that those who hold the Holy See is currently vacant would quickly and happily submit to a true Roman Pontiff the instant he was recognized. 


    The Dimonds even stated this clearly during the infamous "Fradd" interview with Cassman.

    Try harder - you are Stubborn -  you got this...

    Online DecemRationis

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #9 on: Today at 02:40:00 PM »
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  • I can go on and on, but I simply don't accep lables, groups, camps, positions ... nor will I "circle the wagons" to defend my little sub-sect of Traditionalism.  I look at one issue and one problem at a time, and send my intellect off in pursuit of the actual truth, caring nothing for what others believe, only about their arguments and reasons for why they believe it and whether they're sound or not sound.

    Lad,

    Sean is gone, and some others that have been your nemeses from way back, and I'm one of the few around that has been going at it with you on some issues for years.

    Generally, I agree with your characterization, as far as it goes. But when someone challenges you on one of your cherished positions, like the necessity of receiving the sacrament of baptism, and that person doesn't fit the mold of the usual suspect, you - who doesn't accept labels or groups - make a straw man of them or their position and throw them into a group, or pin a convenient label on them.

    You've done that with me. On BoD I've repeatedly indicated that my position is that of St. Robert Bellarmine, Orestes Brownson, the Catechism of Trent, etc., and I've identified what I call the "core principle" of the BOD exception to receipt of the sacrament, i.e., that it is possible for one to be saved without actual receipt of the sacrament  where there is an explicit desire for the sacrament coupled with repentance and faith.

    Yet when we've discussed this subject you lump me in with implicit BoDers and called me heretic, etc. Why? Simply because I challenge you directly and with more bite than you're used to.

    You also have a tendency to "not follow the truth" and walk away from tough questions, rather than concede a point when you have no response.

    So, yeah, I'd say generally you are open-minded until you're confronted with an argument or position that challenges one of your pet views, and then you just walk away without dealing with the direct challenge, after spitting out "heretic" or some other empty charge. 

    And I know you better than some of the newcomers.

    DR





    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #10 on: Today at 02:45:10 PM »
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  • You've done that with me. On BoD I've repeatedly indicated that my position is that of St. Robert Bellarmine, Orestes Brownson, the Catechism of Trent, etc., and I've identified what I call the "core principle" of the BOD exception to receipt of the sacrament, i.e., that it is possible for one to be saved without actual receipt of the sacrament  where there is an explicit desire for the sacrament coupled with repentance and faith.

    Yet when we've discussed this subject you lump me in with implicit BoDers and called me heretic, etc. Why? Simply because I challenge you directly and with more bite than you're used to.
    If this is why he calls you "heretic" that is the lamest garbage I have ever heard...

    But, I think the idea is, the votum acts as a type of stand in for the Sacrament in the extreme case you have outlined - that way you are not denying the necessity of the Sacrament - just the mode of reception due to some insane and highly unlikely once in blue moon scenario and/or the hidden things of God of which we are, "not allowed to inquire further."


    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #11 on: Today at 02:54:23 PM »
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  • You also have a tendency to "not follow the truth" and walk away from tough questions, rather than concede a point when you have no response.

    So, yeah, I'd say generally you are open-minded until you're confronted with an argument or position that challenges one of your pet views, and then you just walk away without dealing with the direct challenge, after spitting out "heretic" or some other empty charge.

    Don't think I didn't notice. But I think he runs off because he is struggling - not because he is adverse to the truth. 

    In truth, we have all done this - but when we see it as a habit in others it is ugly. 

    A couple weeks ago CentroAmerica took us all for a long ride, but when pressed hard - he admitted his doubts/ruse and that took a lot of humility - I respect him just for that.

    Some nuts are harder to crack - some will just rot away from the inside until they become an empty shell.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #12 on: Today at 02:56:53 PM »
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  • But I get bashed on all sides, since I don't blindly follow any group, any camp, any "position", nothing.  I am entirely eclectic and make up my mind seeking only the truth.  So I'll agree and disagree with oh, 100% of all Trad clergy, agree about some things, disagree about others.  So I'll agree with SVs on a lot of things, at which time they're my "best friends" here, but then disagree with them ... at which point I'm attacked for being an R&R-defending shill, and of course vice versa.

    You're just so special, and I guess most of us just can't be as special as you.

    I'm just a normal Trad following priests/bishops holding what I determined (using all my available powers) to be the best, most correct, and safest position on the Crisis in the Church.

    It's not that you have to follow the same group as me -- I'm not saying that at all. You want to be Sedevacantist? fine. You want to be Indult? Fine. But pick a lane! Don't try to be the Leonardo Da Vinci of Trads, "too awesome to fit in any existing group, or to be described with only 1 or 2 words".

    I guess I'm not genius enough to make up my own "custom" position so I can be "lonely at the top" with zero priests/bishops I agree with.

    So you'll have to bear with us ordinary peasants trying to be simply "Catholic".
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    Offline SkidRowCatholic

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    Re: The Errors of the Diamond Bros
    « Reply #13 on: Today at 04:19:34 PM »
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  • I suppose Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians, etc. all said the same...