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Author Topic: the desire thereof  (Read 19222 times)

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the desire thereof
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2012, 11:21:27 PM »
I expanded the quote.

P.S. I'll respond to your private message as soon as I'm able to.

the desire thereof
« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2012, 11:29:16 PM »
One argument I greatly enjoy:

1. God does not command impossibilities. Infallible.

2. God has commanded all men to be baptized. Infallible truth and FACT.

3. Therefore it is possible for all men to be baptized.

In addition, Consider the FACT that God freely chooses some to be saved without condition.

WOuld he choose such to be saved OUTSIDE of the means he established? No, for he would contradict himself!

God wills some to be saved. But if he wills it, he cannot will to violate his own commandments. THerfore, he wills them to be saved according to his commands.

BOD calls into question whether or not GOd knows what he is doing. It introduces a hypothetical scenario where God isn't sure who is going to be saved or not, and so he has to have some contingency plan.

NO.

God has willed from all eternity whom he will save, and whom he will not save. Therefore, from all eternity the MEANS of their salvation have been set in place for the elect. For God will NOT contradict himself: The commandments are not impossible to keep, and e has commanded those who will be saved to be baptized.


the desire thereof
« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2012, 11:54:22 PM »
Scripture is fun too, for those of us who still read it...lol.

2 Corinthians 4:3: β€œAnd if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost, in whom the god of this world [Satan] hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.”

the desire thereof
« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2012, 03:58:05 PM »
On occassion those who support baptism of desire try to quote this section of Trent:

COT:
Session 6:

"For this is that crown of justice which the Apostle declared was, after his fight and course, laid up for him, to be rendered to him by the just judge, and not only to him, but also to all that love his coming. For, whereas Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God,-we must believe that nothing further is wanting to the justified, to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life, to be obtained also in its (due) time, if so be, however, that they depart in grace: seeing that Christ, our Saviour, saith: If any one shall drink of the water that I will give him, he shall not thirst for ever; but it shall become in him a fountain of water springing up unto life everlasting."

They say that those who have kept the commandments are obviously here considered justified and to inherit eternal life.

However, they err; for they do not see that Christ made Baptism obligatory upon all, and is itself a divine command. Therefore, those who keep the commandments and are justified so doing are the baptized alone, and not any catechumen. For no catechumen has fulfilled the divine law, for they have not yet obeyed the law of baptism.

When Christ speaks of the divine water, he speaks of baptism. For it is a matter of dogmatic faith that the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit, the cleansing power of the blood of Christ, and the water of baptism are united and are indivisible. Whoever would separate the action of the spirit from the waters of baptism, therefore is a heretic. For it has been dogmatically proclaimed by Pope St. Leo in his dogmatic letter to Flavian:

"And because the Spirit is truth, it is the Spirit who testifies.  For there are three who give testimony – Spirit and water and blood.  And the three are one.  (1 Jn. 5:4-8)  IN OTHER WORDS, THE SPIRIT OF SANCTIFICATION AND THE BLOOD OF REDEMPTION AND THE WATER OF BAPTISM.  THESE THREE ARE ONE AND REMAIN INDIVISIBLE.  NONE OF THEM IS SEPARABLE FROM ITS LINK WITH THE OTHERS.”



the desire thereof
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2012, 01:35:04 AM »
Quote from: Cupertino
It looks like this is starting to become the blind leading the blind here in this thread now?






From even a cursory look at the thread, that appears to be valid assessment.