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Author Topic: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire  (Read 64289 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #415 on: April 07, 2023, 09:33:26 PM »
The Catechism of Trent provides the solution to your interpretive dilemma:

Regarding Infant Baptism

"Since infant children have no other means of salvation except Baptism, we may easily understand how grievously those persons sin who permit them to remain without the grace of the Sacrament longer than necessity may require, particularly at an age so tender as to be exposed to numberless dangers of death."

Regarding Adult Baptism

"On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."

The Church, in its gold standard Catechism, written by the same theologians who wrote the Council of Trent decrees, interpreted the phrase "aut ejus voto" as you say that the "BoDers" do, namely that "either one suffices" in the case of adults.
The key phase is "will avail them to grace and righteousness.", which is talked about in the earlier posts of this thread. Are grace and righteousness attributes of the dead, or the living?

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #416 on: April 07, 2023, 10:23:03 PM »
The key phase is "will avail them to grace and righteousness.", which is talked about in the earlier posts of this thread. Are grace and righteousness attributes of the dead, or the living?

He's simply rehashing and respamming the same nonsense that we've dealt with already on this thread.  It shows desperation as his idol of "BoD" crumbles before his eyes.

Of course, even IF the Catechism were making reference to BoD (it's not), it would have nothing to do with interpreting this particular passage in Trent or its meaning.

No, the disambiguation of Trent's meaning comes immediately afterwards with the Scripture proof text it cites for the statement.

No justification without water or the votum, because Our Lord taught that water AND the Holy Spirit were necessary.  THAT is the disambiguation, not some passage in the Catechism that may or may not be related.


Offline DecemRationis

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #417 on: April 08, 2023, 03:49:19 AM »
The Catechism of Trent provides the solution to your interpretive dilemma:

Regarding Infant Baptism

"Since infant children have no other means of salvation except Baptism, we may easily understand how grievously those persons sin who permit them to remain without the grace of the Sacrament longer than necessity may require, particularly at an age so tender as to be exposed to numberless dangers of death."

Regarding Adult Baptism

"On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."

The Church, in its gold standard Catechism, written by the same theologians who wrote the Council of Trent decrees, interpreted the phrase "aut ejus voto" as you say that the "BoDers" do, namely that "either one suffices" in the case of adults.

Angelus,

You’re arguing before a “Manhattan jury.” May angels attend you.

DR


Offline DecemRationis

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #418 on: April 08, 2023, 03:52:55 AM »
It shows desperation as his idol of "BoD" crumbles before his eyes.



That’s one of the loudest echos to ever come from your echo chamber.

Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #419 on: April 08, 2023, 05:28:10 AM »
The Catechism of Trent provides the solution to your interpretive dilemma:

Regarding Infant Baptism

"Since infant children have no other means of salvation except Baptism, we may easily understand how grievously those persons sin who permit them to remain without the grace of the Sacrament longer than necessity may require, particularly at an age so tender as to be exposed to numberless dangers of death."

Regarding Adult Baptism

"On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of Baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness."

The Church, in its gold standard Catechism, written by the same theologians who wrote the Council of Trent decrees, interpreted the phrase "aut ejus voto" as you say that the "BoDers" do, namely that "either one suffices" in the case of adults.
You bolded the wrong words so I fixed it.

If you would have quoted the very next paragraph, perhaps you would have learned the reason the Church gives for the delay, which has got nothing to do with a BOD.......

Quote
Nay, this delay seems to be attended with some advantages. And first, since the Church must take particular
care that none approach this Sacrament through hypocrisy and dissimulation, the intentions of such as seek Baptism, are better examined and ascertained. Hence it is that we read in the decrees of ancient Councils that Jєωιѕн converts to the Catholic faith, before admission to Baptism, should spend some months in the ranks of the catechumens.

Furthermore, the candidate for Baptism is thus better instructed in the doctrine of the faith which he is to
profess, and in the practices of the Christian life. Finally, when Baptism is administered to adults with solemn
ceremonies on the appointed days of Easter and Pentecost only greater religious reverence is shown to the
Sacrament.
As regards the red text, note how Jєωs are singled out. Note how it is the Church ("ancient Councils") that set the rules of baptism ("by decree") for them in particular. Apparently, a BOD not apply to Jєωs.