You really tried the ellipses trick?    Unbelievable.  This Canon is about the Sacrament of Confession.  This exposes the abject dishonesty of most BoDers right here.

Of initial justification, Trent teaches:
1) there can be no initial justification without regeneration or rebirth (as Our Lord taught that one must be born again to enter the kingdom of Heaven)
2) regeneration / rebirth Trent defines as ridding the soul of any sin or stain of sin so that there's nothing left that would prevent the soul from immediately entering Heaven

Here's the entirety of Canon 30:
Canon 29, right before it is already in the section of Canons on Confession:
Canon is speaking of repentant sinners (which you ellipsesed out).  Where exactly did I say that temporal punishment is removed from "every repentant sinner" (the part that you conveniently excised from the Canon)?  You accuse me of heresy by removing key sections that prove otherwise.  Shame.

In Session 6 (the one on Baptism), Chapter III, we read:
In Session 5 (on Original Sin), Chapter V, we read:
There can be no initial justification without rebirth, and rebirth is defined as being made completely new "in such a manner that absolutely nothing may delay them from entry into heaven.

Let's look at this again. Below, in bold, is Canon 30 from the Trent "Decree on Justification" (in Session 6). This Canon, the one I originally quoted, is from the "Canons on Justification," not as you mistakenly claim "Canons on Confession [Penance]," which are in Session 14.

"Canon 30.  If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema." (http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch6.htm)

Read Canon 30 again carefully. Nowhere in that canon will you find any exclusive reference to any Sacrament (Penance or otherwise). Canon 30 refers to the general concept of "the grace of justification." However, you are correct that Canon 30 is definitely relevant to the Sacrament of Penance as well as to the "desire for [the bath of regeneration]."

Justification occurs when an alienated soul is brought into friendship with God. Justification can occur (1) in the Sacrament of Baptism, (2) in the "desire for [the bath of regeneration]," or (3) in the Sacrament of Penance (what Trent calls, in Session 6, Chapter 14, the "second plank." All of these three things can bring about "the grace of justification" in the soul. But not all of them affect the debt of temporal punishment in the same way.

Canon 30 from the "Canons on Justification" anathematizes your claim that no temporal punishment can remain after the justification that is produced specifically from "desire for [the bath of regeneration]," aka Tridentine BoD. After "desire for [the bath of regeneration]," the debt for temporal punishment remains, as St. Alphonsus said in quote posted by you earlier in this thread. 

In the justification that results from the Sacrament of Penance, you are, again, incorrect (and again, your statement is anathematized by Canon 30) because the Sacrament of Penance, while justifying the sinner, it does not remit all temporal punishment for sin.

However, in the justification that results from the Sacrament of Baptism, you are correct (and I never claimed otherwise) that no temporal punishment can remain after that type of rebirth. It is, after all, Catholicism 101 that the Sacrament of Baptism has the unique ability to remit both eternal and temporal debt.

I do not claim to speak for all formulations of "BoD." I am only referring to that formulation of BoD to be found in Trent Session 6, Chapter 4 that is referred to as "the desire for [the bath of regeneration]. Trent describes that form of BoD as one potential pathway to "justification" (not "salvation") with the caveat that BoD is not equivalent to the Sacrament of Baptism because BoD justifies but does not remit the temporal debt for sin, while the Sacrament of Baptism both justifies and does remit all temporal debt for sin as well.

Read Canon 30 again carefully. Nowhere in that canon will you find any exclusive reference to any Sacrament (Penance or otherwise).

"Canon 30.  If anyone says that after the reception of the grace of justification the guilt is so remitted and the debt of eternal punishment so blotted out to every repentant sinner, that no debt of temporal punishment remains to be discharged either in this world or in purgatory before the gates of heaven can be opened, let him be anathema."




http://www.thecounciloftrent.com/ch5.htm



Session V,

Concerning Original Sin,

First Decree

5.  If any one denies, that, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is conferred in baptism, the guilt of original sin is remitted; or even asserts that the whole of that which has the true and proper nature of sin is not taken away; but says that it is only rased, or not imputed; let him be anathema. For, in those who are born again, there is nothing that God hates; because, There is no condemnation to those who are truly buried together with Christ by baptism into death; who walk not according to the flesh, but, putting off the old man, and putting on the new who is created according to God, are made innocent, immaculate, pure, harmless, and beloved of God, heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ; so that there is nothing whatever to retard their entrance into heaven. But this holy synod confesses and is sensible, that in the baptized there remains concupiscence, or an incentive (to sin); which, whereas it is left for our exercise, cannot injure those who consent not, but resist manfully by the grace of Jesus Christ; yea, he who shall have striven lawfully shall be crowned. This concupiscence, which the apostle sometimes calls sin, the holy Synod declares that the Catholic Church has never understood it to be called sin, as being truly and properly sin in those born again, but because it is of sin, and inclines to sin.

Read Canon 30 again carefully. Nowhere in that canon will you find any exclusive reference to any Sacrament (Penance or otherwise).

  "Repentent Sinner" = sacrament of confession.


The purpose of baptism is not for repentent sinners, it is to join the Church.  Canon 30 is definitely talking about confession's justification, not baptism's.  The rest of your post is scattered thoughts based on this foundational error.

  "Repentent Sinner" = sacrament of confession.


The purpose of baptism is not for repentent sinners, it is to join the Church.  Canon 30 is definitely talking about confession's justification, not baptism's.  The rest of your post is scattered thoughts based on this foundational error.

Trent Session 6:

----------
CHAPTER VI.

The manner of Preparation.
Now they (adults) are disposed unto the said justice, when, excited and assisted by divine grace, conceiving faith by hearing, they are freely moved towards God, believing those things to be true which God has revealed and promised,-and this especially, that God justifies the impious by His grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; and when, understanding themselves to be sinners, they, by turning themselves, from the fear of divine justice whereby they are profitably agitated, to consider the mercy of God, are raised unto hope, confiding that God will be propitious to them for Christ's sake; and they begin to love Him as the fountain of all justice; and are therefore moved against sins by a certain hatred and detestation, to wit, by that penitence which must be performed before baptism: lastly, when they purpose to receive baptism, to begin a new life, and to keep the commandments of God. Concerning this disposition it is written; He that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him; and, Be of good faith, son, thy sins are forgiven thee; and, The fear of the Lord driveth out sin; and, Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost; and, Going, therefore, teach ye all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; finally, Prepare your hearts unto the Lord.

-------------

The purpose of baptism to be washed from past sin, both original and actual (if relevant to that individual). The Novus Ordo rite of Baptism follows the Novus Ordo theology of baptism is "to join the Church."

The purpose of baptism to be washed from past sin, both original and actual (if relevant to that individual). The Novus Ordo rite of Baptism follows the Novus Ordo theology of baptism is "to join the Church."

No and yes.  The purpose of Baptism is based on the first question the priest asks the adult or godparents of the child: 

Q1 - "What do you ask of the Church?"
A1 - "Faith".

Q2 - "What does Faith provide?"
A1 - "Everlasting life."

The purpose of Baptism is Faith.  It is not the remission of sins, which is a byproduct of the sacrament.  You cannot enter heaven without Faith, which is why Christ said that water and the Holy Ghost is required.  The Holy Ghost provides supernatural Faith, after the catechumen studies the faith (i.e. religion) and has the necessary (human) faith and desire to enter the Church.

You are correct that the novus ordo's change from Faith to "joining the Church" is a watering-down of the ideal purpose and understanding of Baptism.  But it's not invalid.

Thus, again, a BOD'er can desire Baptism (i.e. true Faith), not yet receive it in the sacrament, but can receive remission of sins/justification.  But nowhere does Trent teach that justification is equal to the Faith received in the sacrament, i.e. Supernatural Faith/Wedding garment/baptismal character.  Maybe it's the same?  Not sure.  The Church has never clarified this.

Trent Session 6:

----------
CHAPTER VI.

The manner of Preparation.

See where it says "Preparation"?  In order to properly receive the Sacrament, it's necessary to have repented of your past sins.  This is a prerequisite for being justified in the Sacrament, but it's the Sacrament itself that blots out all sin, original and actual, as well as all temporal punishment due to sin, ex opere operato.  If someone were still intent upon continuing in grave sin, then they would not be justified even when receiving the Sacrament.  But if they have the proper dispositions, then the initial justification conferred in Baptism wipes away all sin.  Similarly, if someone had no natural faith in the Church or if someone did not intend to receive the Sacrament, they would receive the character but no justification.  Let's say I just walked by and randomly baptized some infidel.  I would commit a sacrilege since the individual would receive the Baptismal character, but no justification due to lack of proper dispositions.  But IF they were justified in Baptism or in their initial justification, they are reborn.

Initial Justification = Rebirth
Rebirth (as the term inherently suggests) = a total cleansing of anything that would prevent entry into Heaven (including temporal punishment due to past sins)

It couldn't get simpler than that.

You've effectively denying Our Lord's teaching that no one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven without being "born again" (and Trent defines the term "born again" very clearly).

Initial Justification = Rebirth
Rebirth (as the term inherently suggests) = a total cleansing of anything that would prevent entry into Heaven (including temporal punishment due to past sins)

It couldn't get simpler than that.

You've effectively denying Our Lord's teaching that no one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven without being "born again" (and Trent defines the term "born again" very clearly).

Here is a quote from the section discussing BoD in Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.

"Baptism of desire works ex opere operantis. It bestows sanctifying grace, which remits original sin, all actual sins, and the eternal punishment for sin. Venial sins and temporal punishments for sin are remitted according to the intensity of the subjective disposition. The baptismal character is not imprinted, nor is it the gateway to the other sacraments."

Ott's book was a standard pre-VII textbook for Catholic seminarians. It agrees with that I said. 

Again, BoD (properly understood) does not work like the Sacrament of Baptism.