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Author Topic: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire  (Read 64708 times)

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Offline OABrownson1876

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The collected works of St Robert Bellarmine is 19 volumes - at least the Roma edition which I have researched here in my hometown (this work is contained at the Baptist Theological Seminary *Thanks a lot to the  Novus Ordo heretics who surrendered these volumes to their brother heretics!)  The point is, to quote Bellarmine's opinion on unbaptized catechumens, and to create an entire false theology around this opinion, is patently ridiculous.  Bellarmine was fighting more heretics than even Augustine, and to conclude that Bellarmine could not be wrong in some of his theological opinions is equally as ridiculous.  There is no Church pronouncement which we have seen that confirms unbaptized catechumens as being in paradise; in fact it is mere speculation that such a person exists, aside from the case of the person smacked by the car on his way to the baptismal fount.  In fact we have Trent's proclamation that the "sacraments are necessary for salvation."  And most would agree that BOD is a non-sacrament. 

The catechumen, unbaptized, might very well recite the Athanasian Creed, and firmly assent to all the truths contained therein with his intellect.  But he still does not "have" the Faith.  He believes the Faith, but he does not have it, because he is not yet sacramentally baptized.  Noah believed all that God had revealed to him, in fact, he built the vessel and had the intention of entering it; but he was not safe until he was "inside the ark."  And all those outside the ark, who may or may not have had the intention of entering it, were probably damned.  
      

Offline DecemRationis

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The collected works of St Robert Bellarmine is 19 volumes - at least the Roma edition which I have researched here in my hometown (this work is contained at the Baptist Theological Seminary *Thanks a lot to the  Novus Ordo heretics who surrendered these volumes to their brother heretics!)  The point is, to quote Bellarmine's opinion on unbaptized catechumens, and to create an entire false theology around this opinion, is patently ridiculous.  Bellarmine was fighting more heretics than even Augustine, and to conclude that Bellarmine could not be wrong in some of his theological opinions is equally as ridiculous.  There is no Church pronouncement which we have seen that confirms unbaptized catechumens as being in paradise; in fact it is mere speculation that such a person exists, aside from the case of the person smacked by the car on his way to the baptismal fount.  In fact we have Trent's proclamation that the "sacraments are necessary for salvation."  And most would agree that BOD is a non-sacrament.

The catechumen, unbaptized, might very well recite the Athanasian Creed, and firmly assent to all the truths contained therein with his intellect.  But he still does not "have" the Faith.  He believes the Faith, but he does not have it, because he is not yet sacramentally baptized.  Noah believed all that God had revealed to him, in fact, he built the vessel and had the intention of entering it; but he was not safe until he was "inside the ark."  And all those outside the ark, who may or may not have had the intention of entering it, were probably damned. 
     

With all due respect, it's not only Bellarmine, but also everyone else.  By way of example, O.A. Brownson, who has one of the most astute comments on the issue of EENS/BOD that I've read.  

Who are the post-Trent exceptions?


... to conclude that Bellarmine could not be wrong in some of his theological opinions is equally as ridiculous.      
 
Moreso, one would necessarily have to conclude that Bellarmine, Liguori, Suarez, and other theologians and authorized Catholic writers after Trent were not just wrong, but were incompetent dimwits who completely misunderstood what the council meant in it’s decree on justification, misleading the whole Church for centuries into thinking the council taught BOD, without their interpretation of Trent’s decree ever being corrected or disputed, and without any alternate understanding being proposed by anyone authorized to write on it.

Offline Stubborn

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Moreso, one would necessarily have to conclude that Bellarmine, Liguori, Suarez, and other theologians and authorized Catholic writers after Trent were not just wrong, but were incompetent dimwits who completely misunderstood what the council meant in it’s decree on justification, misleading the whole Church for centuries into thinking the council taught BOD, without their interpretation of Trent’s decree ever being corrected or disputed, and without any alternate understanding being proposed by anyone authorized to write on it.
The actual incompetent dimwits are the ones who insist that there is no contradiction whatsoever between the clear words of Our Lord Himself which have also been infallibly defined (which we are bound to believe), and the opinions of anyone/everyone else.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Quote
one would necessarily have to conclude that Bellarmine, Liguori, Suarez, and other theologians and authorized Catholic writers after Trent were not just wrong, but were incompetent dimwits who completely misunderstood what the council meant in it’s decree on justification
Church Fathers > Renaissance theologians

Either +Bellarmine et all were right, or the many Church Fathers were, who distinguished between justification (i.e. state of grace) and salvation by baptism.  If you choose +Bellarmine then you're saying +Ambrose etc is a dimwit.  Their views are not consistent.

The same error is peddled around today by millions of Protestants...they go around saying "I'm saved!"  No, you're not.  You're baptized/justified.  You're not "saved" until you die.

Same thing with BOD.  You can "desire" to be baptized and God (so the argument goes) can give you justification.  But you're not baptized and you can't be saved until you ACTUALLY receive the sacrament.