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Author Topic: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire  (Read 64305 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #395 on: April 06, 2023, 12:17:50 PM »
Quote
The point is, as others have pointed out, it makes no sense to believe that God won't or is not capable of getting someone baptized if He wills it regardless of "impossibility".
Good point.  I hate it when people argue that "God isn't limited by the Sacraments because He's omnipotent."  This is Modernist thinking because it erodes the idea of God's Divine Providence and Wisdom.

God created the Church/sacraments/free-will of mankind.  He created the "rules".  He invented the board game** of life/salvation.  But then we stupid humans play the board game and say "Well, God is losing (because John Doe wanted baptism but didn't get it), so He can invent new rules to save John."  This is ridiculous because God knew, before John was even born, what the game board would look like when he was alive, and the odds stacked against him.  God can't lose at His own game.  And changing the rules, while the game is being played, would mean God is NOT omnipotent, and His Providence can fail, and His Wisdom is limited.  This is heresy.

** (a 1,000 pardons for this horrible analogy of a board game)...

God also created the rules of the 10 Commandments.  Can He save someone who dies in mortal sin?  Why not?  Why can't God also change these rules?

God also wrote the Bible.  Can He lie to us and tell us things which aren't historically/scientifically accurate?  Why not?  Why can't God change history or science?

See the slippery slope this all leads to?  Once you start questioning 1 aspect of Our Faith, then everything is open to questions.  And then you're a Modernist.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #396 on: April 06, 2023, 01:00:24 PM »
Agreed, but it might be added that marriage is confected when there is a vota, a verbal exchange of both vows.  The interesting thing with marriage, if the would-be-husband died right after the words, "I take thee...," would there have been a marriage?  Because although not verbally expressed, the would-be-wife had the "intention" to express the words.

This is a good point.  Both could have been absolutely intent upon getting married an hour before the ceremony.  Would they have been married then?  No.  That's why votum, from which we get our word "vow", even in the BoD context, is MUCH stronger than a mere intention.  You almost can't have the votum until you actually carry it out.


Offline OABrownson1876

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #397 on: April 06, 2023, 02:59:42 PM »
We have an instance of BoD in the Eunuch of Candace (Acts 8).  He had "come to Jerusalem to adore."(27)  We know that this man at least knew of the religion of the Jews and sought to adore the God of the Old Testament.  We do not know his motives, but presume his sincerity, since God saw fit to send an angel to Philip, commanding him to go to "the desert," "the way that goeth from Jerusalem into Gaza."  The Holy Ghost had obviously stirred up the soul of the eunuch.  The Eunuch had been to Jerusalem, but had not heard about Christ there, and leaving the city he had a "desire" to follow the truth.  The Eunuch was reading the truth, but did not understand the truth, hence his admission, "how can I (understand the truth), unless some man show me?"(31)  And the Eunuch, after he had been preached to, admitted his belief in Christ, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."(37)  Because the eunuch desired to know the truth, God confirmed the full truth (Baptism) in him.

Offline Angelus

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #398 on: April 06, 2023, 03:20:33 PM »
So, what of it, Angelus, yes or no, is explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation necessary for salvation?  If you refuse to answer again, I will proceed as if your answer is no ... since there's no other explanation for your refusal to answer.

Of course, explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation are necessary for SALVATION.

Previously you asked me a different question, Ladislaus. Here it is verbatim:

"So, let me ask you this. Is the requirement of explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation and Our Lord Jesus Christ necessary for justification?" (found in this post)

So you asked two different questions, but claim you are asking me AGAIN. One question used the word "justification" and the other question used the word "salvation." These words do not mean the same thing, although many on this forum use them interchangeably.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #399 on: April 06, 2023, 03:33:46 PM »
Of course, explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation are necessary for SALVATION.

This was asked before you decided that you liked the justification vs. salvation distinction.