Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 52 53 [54] 55 56 ... 102

Author Topic: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire  (Read 64426 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #265 on: March 31, 2023, 09:43:54 PM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on March 31, 2023, 09:50:01 AM
Do you reject Vatican I and the plenary jurisdiction and power of the pope because some believe it means a pope has the authority to promulgate the changes of the New Mass? I trust not.
I don't reject V1 though I'm not 100% sure on the point you are trying to make. I thought it was not possible to make 'massive' changes to the mass? Though there are other issues with the V2 'Popes' than just the new mass.
Logged

Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #266 on: March 31, 2023, 09:49:01 PM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on March 31, 2023, 04:08:50 PM
A lot of this is opinion, but I'll deal with the erroneous factual assertion:

Wrong. It's in The Catechism of Trent (1566). 
The OP post is attempting to disprove that. Allegedly it was the Dimonds who first said that the Catechism of Trent teaches BoD. Did anyone else teach this before them?
Logged

Offline gemmarose

Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #267 on: March 31, 2023, 11:26:21 PM »
Quote from: gemmarose on March 14, 2023, 10:08:25 PM
Hello everyone, just to let everyone know Friarminor isn't associated or support any group out there.



 https://twitter.com/1Friarminor/status/1623510195476340736?s=20 
During the time of Pope Gregory XIII, right after the Trent Catechism was published, it is very clear that the Church did not consider those who had not been baptized to be in the family of Christ, which is the Church. This was always the traditional understanding. Baptism of desire doesn't place anyone in the family of God, the Church.  https://twitter.com/1Friarminor/status/1628144315221553158?s=20
Logged

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #268 on: April 01, 2023, 04:58:20 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on March 31, 2023, 12:10:21 PM
1.  BOD is not in every catechism.  It started being inserted in the 1700/1800s.  Examples:  Some posters here in the past showed pictures of the original Baltimore Catechism which has no mention of it.  But subsequent editions mentioned it.  It was added. 

Also, catechisms aren't infallible, so any errors contained aren't a problem for indefectibility.

2.  BOD speculation is not "universal" therefore there is no "universal error". 
a.  St Thomas (and others of the Middle Ages) source St Augustine as the basis; but not Scripture/Revelation/Tradition.  Not sure why they didn't realize he recanted his opinion??  Probably because they were just debating the issue and didn't consider it a doctrine worth much research time.
b.  St Bellarmine is clear that it's his opinion and based on St Thomas (which is based on St Augustine).
c.  I've never heard of any Doctor/Saint make an argument from Scripture or anyone besides St Augustine.
d.  St Augustine isn't infallible nor can he be viewed as "Tradition".
e.  Trent itself quotes Christ in Scripture (repeatedly) which mentions 2 necessary things - faith and water.  Trent never says, explicitly, that only faith suffices.
f.  Any saint/doctor or holy person who comments on Christ's teaching ALWAYS says that faith/water are necessary for Baptism.  This cannot be questioned.
g.  Ergo, BOD is speculative, just due to the lack of explanation, lack of details, lack of scripture/tradition proofs and the problem of varied/differing explanations of it.
Excellent post Pax.
Logged

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #269 on: April 01, 2023, 05:03:33 AM »
Quote from: AnthonyPadua on March 31, 2023, 09:41:22 PM
Because Trent reiterates "as it is written; unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God." And also because the majority of the early fathers held to water baptism, and St. Gregory nαzιanzus denies it.

Finally, corrupt fruits only come from a corrupt tree. The fruits of BoD is seen in V2 and salvation outside the church.....
Yes, John 3:5 and other Scripture must be wholly rejected, forgotten, and ignored and the thrice defined dogma denied for the idea of a BOD to be a doctrine of the Church or anything more than theological speculation.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 52 53 [54] 55 56 ... 102
« previous next »