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Author Topic: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire  (Read 64449 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #245 on: March 28, 2023, 11:29:31 AM »
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Ah, yes, when you name a theological system (er, position) after yourself you're being traditional and when I copy and paste Trent I'm being self-important. Must be because of how much more learned you are, forgive me.
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Am I doing it right?

Stop lying.  You weren't just copying-pasting.  You were trying to mansplain to everyone else what Trent "really" means and telling them they must reflect until they see the REAL meaning of it.  Your conflation of pasting the text in as being the same as your imposed interpretation of it says a lot.

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #246 on: March 28, 2023, 12:01:53 PM »

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Supernatural faith can only be received once? :confused: title=confused
Yep.  Trent even points out that no sin removes supernatural faith from the soul.  And obviously Trent is talking about the initial reception of Faith.  You're baptized once and forever.  You get initial Faith only once.


Offline DecemRationis

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #247 on: March 28, 2023, 12:54:47 PM »
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Even someone who has supernatural faith can have *more* supernatural faith super-added onto their existing 'amount'. That's what happens, for instance, when a catechumen who already has supernatural faith is baptized.
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I  think it would be better to speak of it as an increase in justification, which is very intimately connected with faith. And that's what Session VI, Chapter 4 and the whole Session VI is talking about: justification.

Justification is increased with the receipt of the sacraments, prayer, other good works, etc. That's clearly addressed in Trent Session VI.



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Chap. 10. Concerning the Increase of Justification Received

1535 Dz 803


Having, therefore, been thus justified and having been made the "friends of God" and "his domestics" (
Jn 15,15 Ep 2,19), "advancing from virtue to virtue" (Ps 83,8), "they are renewed" (as the Apostle says) "from day to day" (2Co 4,16), that is, by mortifying the members of their flesh (Col 3,5), and by "presenting them as instruments of justice" (Rm 6,13 Rm 6,19), unto sanctification through the observance of the commandments of God and of the Church; in this justice received through the grace of Christ "faith cooperating with good works" (Jc 2,22), they increase and are further justified [can. 24 and 32], as it is written: "He that is just, let him be justified still" (Ap 22,11), and again: "Be not afraid to be justified even to death" (Si 18,22), and again: "You see, that by works a man is justified and not by faith only" (Jc 2,24). And this increase of justice Holy Church begs for, when she prays: "Give unto us, O Lord, an increase of faith, hope and charity" [13th Sun. after Pent.].


http://www.clerus.org/bibliaclerusonline/en/dw5.htm

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #248 on: March 28, 2023, 01:53:17 PM »
But this has nothing to do with Baptism or BOD.  Stay on topic! 

Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #249 on: March 28, 2023, 10:03:04 PM »
Here is Trent immediately after the section where preparation is described:
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Note the council does not say that justification *may* follow preparation, it says that it *does* follow the preparation just described.
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The follow up would be the sacrament of baptism which gives the supernatural faith (the instrumental cause).
The Catholic Faith = the the supernatural faith.
That's why Catechumens are called 'Catechumens' and not 'the faithful'. Also why we have 'mass of the catechumens' and "mass of the faithful'. Only those baptised are given the supernatural faith.