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Author Topic: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire  (Read 64471 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #220 on: March 28, 2023, 07:48:20 AM »
Quote
If BoD somehow gives the supernatural virtue of 'faith' then it would reduce the importance of the sacrament of baptism.
Agree.  BOD cannot provide supernatural Faith, as this is only available from Baptism, from God.  No human can will/desire to have anything supernatural, because we aren't God and supernatural things are above us.  If we say that BOD can provide supernatural Faith, then we are espousing the same error of "salvation by Faith" that the protestants support, who say one can gain salvation by human means (which was condemned by Trent).
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Offline Mithrandylan

Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #221 on: March 28, 2023, 07:49:19 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on March 28, 2023, 07:31:16 AM
This is referring to what theologians called fides initialis, a natural analogue to supernatural faith that precedes justification.
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Is it? It's described as supernatural as far as I can tell:
Quote
excited and assisted by divine grace, conceiving faith by hearing, they are freely moved towards God, believing those things to be true which God has revealed and promised
Note that clearly supernatural hope and charity are described to follow from the same faith therein described. Would you maintain supernatural charity can be had without supernatural faith?
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Offline Mithrandylan

Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #222 on: March 28, 2023, 07:49:45 AM »
Quote from: DecemRationis on March 28, 2023, 07:47:27 AM
Mith,

Right. But I think you meant Chapter 6:


This is consistent with the Catechism: if a catechumen were to die in such a state, he would be saved.
I do, thank you. 
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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #223 on: March 28, 2023, 07:49:53 AM »
Quote
Now they (adults) are disposed unto the said justice, when, excited and assisted by divine grace, conceiving faith by hearing
This is not referring to supernatural faith, which only God can provide.  If we say that BOD can provide supernatural Faith (or that one can have supernatural faith before Baptism), then we are espousing the same error of "salvation by Faith" that the protestants support, who say one can gain salvation by human means (which was condemned by Trent).
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Offline Mithrandylan

Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #224 on: March 28, 2023, 07:53:08 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on March 28, 2023, 07:49:53 AM
This is not referring to supernatural faith, which only God can provide.  If we say that BOD can provide supernatural Faith (or that one can have supernatural faith before Baptism), then we are espousing the same error of "salvation by Faith" that the protestants support, who say one can gain salvation by human means (which was condemned by Trent).
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I quoted the whole thing precisely because it is susceptible to being quoted out of context and misunderstood as you are misunderstanding. Read the whole thing and ponder it for a day, see if you still think that is what it's saying. 
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