Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire  (Read 64476 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #210 on: March 25, 2023, 09:46:27 AM »
Is it not many orders of magnitude more absurd that any Catholic could prefer his understanding of Trent to the plethora of learned Doctors and theologians who understand Trent to be teaching Baptism of Desire, the same doctrine taught by the Angelic Doctor, whose Summa was so venerated at the Council, and the Fathers and Doctors of old?

Plethora my foot.  Father Cekada did a study and could find only about two dozen theologians that even mention the subject, more than half of whom simply mention it in passing, as in, "Yup.  BoD."

You're entitled to believe in the BoD speculation ... AS THESE DOCTORS HELD IT, as the Church has thus far permitted it.  But if you start babbling on about how infidels can be saved by BoD (which none of these sources affirm), you're a heretic.

What a pathetic tactic, "the Angelic Doctor, whose Summa was so venerated at the Council".  So what?  That doesn't make him infallible.  He also misfired on the Immaculate Conception, and later theologians have found about 4 dozen errrors in his writings.

Then you throw in a gratuitous lie about the Church Fathers, as the vast majority of Church Fathers rejected the concept of BoD (and I argue that they all did, excepting the youthful speculation of a young St. Augustine, who then later retracted the opinion).

Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #211 on: March 25, 2023, 10:15:27 AM »
Another serious problem with the BoDer rendering.

Corollary to your reading is that justification CAN happen WITHOUT the laver, without the Sacrament.  That would be heretical by Trent's own condemnation.  It would be one thing to say that an individual can receive the Sacrament in voto and quite another (heretical) thing to say that justification (and therefore salvation) can happen WITHOUT the Sacrament.

So Trent is implying the same heresy that it elsewhere condemns?

:facepalm:

So who is “your” again? You were replying to me in the post prior to that one.



Offline DecemRationis

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #212 on: March 25, 2023, 10:19:29 AM »
Plethora my foot. 

I knew you were a . . . Centipede.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #213 on: March 25, 2023, 10:30:50 AM »
:facepalm:

So who is “your” again? You were replying to me in the post prior to that one.

OK, then cite the correct post.  Yes, it's your.  You read Trent with the BoDer option ... or have you suddenly rejected BoD?

There are only two ways to read "withou the laver or the desire", the BoDer way or the other way.  You are a BoDer, so you read it the BoDer way.  Stop being so dense.

Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: The Catechism of the Council of Trent does not teach Baptism of Desire
« Reply #214 on: March 27, 2023, 08:21:02 PM »
No Pax, Trent never says that justification is conferred with the sacrament itself, only that without them, justification cannot be attained. Trent puts it this way, presumably, because one may partake of the sacraments unworthily hence  sacrilegiously.

BODers see "no sacrament/no desire = no justification" - as "desire / no sacrament = justification."
To BODers, desire equals certain justification, which is not what Trent says.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, from; CHAPTER VII. What the justification of the impious is, and what are the causes thereof.
"the instru
mental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified"

I don't see how the other guy can say that BoD justifies, when the sacrament (which also requires water) is required for justification as this decree states. Please correct me if I am wrong or have misunderstood something.