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Author Topic: THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY  (Read 6172 times)

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Offline stevusmagnus

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Offline Jehanne

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THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2009, 06:43:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: stevusmagnus
    http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/desire.html



    Only for catechumens, no one else whatsoever.  Show me a single Catholic source prior to 1800 that said that a non-Catholic could be saved without Baptism.


    Offline Belloc

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #2 on: October 02, 2009, 07:23:15 AM »
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  • I often wonder of Feeney were alive today,would he be appaled at the cult-like status he has achieved.... :reporter:
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline SJB

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #3 on: October 02, 2009, 07:28:49 AM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/desire.html



    Only for catechumens, no one else whatsoever.  Show me a single Catholic source prior to 1800 that said that a non-Catholic could be saved without Baptism.


    So you're not a hard core feeneyite. And the sacrament of Baptism is NOT REQUIRED in EVERY case. Catechumens are NOT yet recieved the Sacrament.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Vladimir

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #4 on: October 02, 2009, 08:03:56 AM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    http://matt1618.freeyellow.com/desire.html



    Only for catechumens, no one else whatsoever.  Show me a single Catholic source prior to 1800 that said that a non-Catholic could be saved without Baptism.


    I agree.

    I think that Fr. Feeney said he doesn't know where unbaptised catechumens go if they die.




    Offline clare

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #5 on: October 02, 2009, 08:04:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Show me a single Catholic source prior to 1800 that said that a non-Catholic could be saved without Baptism.


    Can you be anything but a non-Catholic, without baptism?


    Offline SJB

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #6 on: October 02, 2009, 08:10:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Jehanne
    Show me a single Catholic source prior to 1800 that said that a non-Catholic could be saved without Baptism.


    Can you be anything but a non-Catholic, without baptism?



    No, not a formal member of the Church (as defined in Mystici Corporis), but one can be united to the Church by supernatural Faith and Charity.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline clare

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #7 on: October 02, 2009, 08:13:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Jehanne
    Show me a single Catholic source prior to 1800 that said that a non-Catholic could be saved without Baptism.


    Can you be anything but a non-Catholic, without baptism?



    No, not a formal member of the Church (as defined in Mystici Corporis), but one can be united to the Church by supernatural Faith and Charity.


    Exactly.


    Offline Jehanne

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #8 on: October 02, 2009, 08:21:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    So you're not a hard core feeneyite. And the sacrament of Baptism is NOT REQUIRED in EVERY case. Catechumens are NOT yet recieved the Sacrament.


    No, but the vow is.  Show me otherwise, and I will believe.

    Offline Jehanne

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #9 on: October 02, 2009, 08:24:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: clare
    Quote from: Jehanne
    Show me a single Catholic source prior to 1800 that said that a non-Catholic could be saved without Baptism.


    Can you be anything but a non-Catholic, without baptism?



    No, not a formal member of the Church (as defined in Mystici Corporis), but one can be united to the Church by supernatural Faith and Charity.


    This is heresy.  It has been defined:

    1. Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;

    2. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

    3. And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;

    4. Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance.

    5. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

    6. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal.

    7. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit.

    8. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated.

    9. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.

    10. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.

    11. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal.

    12. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.

    13. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.

    14. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.

    15. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;

    16. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.

    17. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;

    18. And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord.

    19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord;

    20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords.

    21. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.

    22. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.

    23. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.

    24. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.

    25. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another.

    26. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal.

    27. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.

    28. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

    29. Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    30. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.

    31. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world.

    32. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.

    33. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.

    34. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.

    35. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God.

    36. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person.

    37. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;

    38. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;

    39. He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty;

    40. From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

    41. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;

    42. and shall give account of their own works.

    43. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.

    44. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.

    http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html

    Offline Jehanne

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #10 on: October 02, 2009, 08:31:06 AM »
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  • Oh, and to make my position absolutely clear, I think that Pius XII was a heretic.


    Offline SJB

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #11 on: October 02, 2009, 01:48:35 PM »
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  • Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: SJB
    So you're not a hard core feeneyite. And the sacrament of Baptism is NOT REQUIRED in EVERY case. Catechumens are NOT yet recieved the Sacrament.


    No, but the vow is.  Show me otherwise, and I will believe.


    Doesn't matter. The "vow" is implicit anyway. The point is that THE SACRAMENT of BAPTISM is not NOT required in EVERY case. Do you now admit this?
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Jehanne

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #12 on: October 02, 2009, 01:55:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: Jehanne
    Quote from: SJB
    So you're not a hard core feeneyite. And the sacrament of Baptism is NOT REQUIRED in EVERY case. Catechumens are NOT yet recieved the Sacrament.


    No, but the vow is.  Show me otherwise, and I will believe.


    Doesn't matter. The "vow" is implicit anyway. The point is that THE SACRAMENT of BAPTISM is not NOT required in EVERY case. Do you now admit this?


    This is heresy, and if you had lived during the Middle Ages and said this, they would have burned you.  A vow cannot be implicit, it cannot be unconscious.  There are no "anonymous Christians," only Christians and non-Christians.  From the Council of Trent:

    Canon 5. If anyone says that baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation, let him be anathema.





    Offline SJB

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #13 on: October 03, 2009, 01:05:31 AM »
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  • jehanne,

    The point is that THE SACRAMENT of BAPTISM is not NOT required in EVERY case. Do you now admit this?

    Now you know why I thought you were a female. :) No offense to any females out there, either. I knew Clare was a female...but not from her arguments. :)
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline CM

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    THE CASE AGAINST FATHER FEENEY
    « Reply #14 on: October 03, 2009, 02:01:16 AM »
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  • "Jehanne" sorta looks like a girls name.  Sounds like it too "Jan", "Jean" whatever.

    So, DON, my man, please please please do not answer SJB question in the affirmative.

    Or you will make yourself heretical.