Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy  (Read 32168 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #260 on: February 11, 2021, 12:12:49 PM »
I've clearly explained what I believe. Those Justified by Baptism of Desire, before they obtain the Grace of Final Perseverance, will be given the Grace to embrace the Catholic Faith, and so be saved as Christians, believing explicitly at least the Trinity and Incarnation.

We ALL believe this.  Only some of us believe that such an individual will also receive the Sacrament of Baptism.

Based on how you've articulated it here, I have no quarrel with you.  You are perfectly free to believe in Baptism of Desire with the conditions laid out above.  I just don't happen to believe in it, since I believe that God will also give those who persevere in the manner you describe the Sacrament of Baptism ... without fail.

Your quarrel with is me that you claim that I am obliged to believe that such a one will not necessarily receive the Sacrament, whereas I dispute that.

Now Trent taught justification by a "Confession of Desire", that's for sure, but I also hold that someone who sincerely desires Confession, that God will not let him be cut down without it.  I believe 100% in Our Lord's promise of "Ask and you shall receive." ... as did St. Ambrose.

Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #261 on: February 11, 2021, 01:03:38 PM »
Quote
Xavier wrote - I've clearly explained what I believe. Those Justified by Baptism of Desire, before they obtain the Grace of Final Perseverance, will be given the Grace to embrace the Catholic Faith, and so be saved as Christians, believing explicitly at least the Trinity and Incarnation.
 
Responding to what the writer above wrote, is letting the writer off the hook. The above back pedaling has nothing to do with his teaching that he clearly stated below. The quote below has NOTHING to do with anything taught by the sources he sights for baptism of desire of the catechumen. It completely denies the theory of baptism of desire of the catechumen. That, like I've said many times, is the standard operating procedure of the False BODers. By their deeds you shall know them.


Quote
Xavier wrote: "God can provide the Sacrament wherever and whenever He chooses. And He can also provide forgiveness through Perfect Contrition wherever and whenever He chooses",


Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #262 on: February 11, 2021, 02:57:16 PM »
Quote
I've clearly explained what I believe. Those Justified by Baptism of Desire, before they obtain the Grace of Final Perseverance, will be given the Grace to embrace the Catholic Faith, and so be saved as Christians, believing explicitly at least the Trinity and Incarnation.

Even your above explanation is convoluted and out of order.  It should read as below:
.
Those who 1) believing explicitly at least the Trinity and Incarnation, 2a) Justified by Baptism of Desire, 2b) will be given having been given the Grace to embrace the Catholic Faith, 4) before they obtain the Grace of Final Perseverance, and so be saved as Christians.
.
The problem with you, Xavier (and others), is you wrongly split 2a and 2b into 2 different acts, whereas they are the same act - the act of the human being accepting the Church, and the resulting grace given by God.  A desire for baptism, is the same as embracing the Faith.  
.
Why do you say that one "will be given" the grace to embrace the Faith, if BOD is already a desire/embracing of the Faith?
.
I'm not calling you a modernist...but this is how modernists such as Rahner explained that an unbaptized protestant (i.e. one who believes in the Incarnation/Trinity) could be saved through BOD, (while contradictorily) not knowing/rejecting parts of the Catholic Church.  This is NOT possible; this is heresy!
.
A true desire for baptism = a desire to become 100% catholic.  It is impossible to have a true desire for baptism without desiring to enter the one, holy, catholic, apostolic faith.  If one has a desire to be baptized, they can only be justified IF...they desire to be baptized in the CATHOLIC Church.  
.
A protestant who wants to be baptized in his protestant faith, is NOT justified by this desire.  He will be justified if he actually gets a valid baptism, but as we all know, he then becomes a heretic/schismatic as soon as he falls into protestant error.
.
Justification does not come by desiring the SACRAMENT only, but by desiring MEMBERSHIP in the CHURCH (Trent goes on and on explaining this fact in section on justification).  This would be an incomplete desire, because one is desiring the "fruits" of the sacrament (i.e. God's grace, heir to heaven), without accepting the "responsibilities" of membership in the church (i.e. protestants don't want to obey the pope or Church laws).
.
So again, your definition of BOD above is wrong, because you split apart the desire for the sacrament and embracing the Faith.  For one to be justified by BOD, these 2 conditions are co-dependent and cannot be separated.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #263 on: February 11, 2021, 03:05:50 PM »
Xavier, this goes back to the changes made post-V2 to the baptism rite.  The priest in the pre-V2 ritual asked the recipient: "What do you desire?".  Answer:  "The Faith".
.
The post-V2, modernist ritual:  "What do you desire?"  (false) Answer:  "Baptism".
.
The faith is much, much more than baptism.  If one does not have a desire for the 100% true Faith, to join the Catholic Church fully, then one does not have a true/correct desire for baptism (same applies for BOD).  Trent is quite clear on this.

Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #264 on: February 11, 2021, 03:18:39 PM »
Xavier, this goes back to the changes made post-V2 to the baptism rite.  The priest in the pre-V2 ritual asked the recipient: "What do you desire?".  Answer:  "The Faith".
.
The post-V2, modernist ritual:  "What do you desire?"  (false) Answer:  "Baptism".
Does the SSPX use the post V2 answer ‘Baptism’ and not ‘The Faith’? 
I’ve witnessed many Novus Ordo, and Latin rite Baptisms and I don’t remember ever hearing the answer ‘The Faith’. I could be mistaken though.