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Author Topic: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy  (Read 32181 times)

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #235 on: February 10, 2021, 11:48:38 PM »
Is it for real? What year/page it is on? I will check next time I am in the bookstore (I do not own that book).
2009 pocket edition,  page 122 I believe. Its in the section, ironically, of the Sacred Heart.

Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #236 on: February 11, 2021, 12:00:19 AM »
Well, you'd be surprised how little time theologians actually spent on BoD.  Very few even mention it, and those who do typically mention it in passing, simply repeating the notion that it exists.  Things get perpetuated through repetition unless someone takes the time to "dig into" an issue and look at the source material.  Very few theologians cared that much about this question to do original research, simply taking this conclusion for granted due to lack of time or interest to look into it.  So, no, they weren't "dumb".  They just didn't care that much about it by and large and didn't spent a lot of their time on it.  Father Cekada did a survey of all the theologians' opinions on BoD and he could only find about 20 (if I recall) in total, and the vast majority of it simply mentioned it in passing in a single sentence.

In fact, from the about the 5th century, when St. Fulgentius explicitly rejected BoD, until St. Bernard, there isn't a single mention of it anywhere in extant Catholic writing.  It resurfaced with the proto-scholastics, Abelard and Hugh of St. Victor, who were debating separate sides of the issue.  Peter Lombard then wrote St. Bernard, asking for his opinion on the subject, and the latter TENTATIVELY went pro-BoD with the argument, "I'd rather be wrong with Augustine" than right on his own (a posture of humility).  He was evidently not aware that St. Augustine had forcefully retracted the opinion.  Had he known, he would have had to decide whether to be right with early Augustine or right with later Augustine.  Peter Lombard than put that opinion into the Sentences, which became the first scholastic theological treatise.  From there St. Thomas picked it up, and from him it spread ... due to his authority.
To  be clear I'm not throwing accusations of heresy around or anything, but that still seems pretty sketch.  So the Church "just went with" this for eight centuries, basically. Like even if originally it was based on not knowing Augustine retracted, still seems strange that God would allow a lie to basically go unchallenged for that long.

It seems more likely that BOD *at least* for catechumens is at least a possibility, though I realize St Benedict Center currently takes a more moderate position of "in theory BOD is possible, but our personal opinion is that it doesn't actually happen" basically (that's a paraphrase)


Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #237 on: February 11, 2021, 01:18:15 AM »
Baltimore Catechism, Approved by His Holiness Pope Leo XIII: Q. 654. How do we know that the baptism of desire or of blood will save us when it is impossible to receive the baptism of water?

A. We know that baptism of desire or of blood will save us when it is impossible to receive the baptism of water, from Holy Scripture, which teaches that love of God and perfect contrition can secure the remission of sins ; and also that Our Lord promises salvation to those who lay down their life for His sake or for His teaching.
An honest question; 

When would it ever be impossible for God to get the Sacrament of Baptism to a soul before they die? 
And not just any Sacrament, but the one He requires for souls to be cleansed so they may enter into His Heavenly abode to be with Him forever?

Do some believe that God sits on His throne in Heaven letting everything on Earth happen on it’s own or by chance?


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #238 on: February 11, 2021, 04:11:21 AM »
May I ask for a source/reference?

It was quoted above.  Or do you mean that’s you want the source of the citation?

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #239 on: February 11, 2021, 04:24:53 AM »
To  be clear I'm not throwing accusations of heresy around or anything, but that still seems pretty sketch.  So the Church "just went with" this for eight centuries, basically. Like even if originally it was based on not knowing Augustine retracted, still seems strange that God would allow a lie to basically go unchallenged for that long.

It seems more likely that BOD *at least* for catechumens is at least a possibility, though I realize St Benedict Center currently takes a more moderate position of "in theory BOD is possible, but our personal opinion is that it doesn't actually happen" basically (that's a paraphrase)

This false notion of some bizarre extended infallibility of the Church has really clouded and polluted this issue.  For about the same period, about 700 years, all theologians also followed the Augustinian theory that unbaptized infants went to hell and suffered some pain there even if “mild”.  Later the Church rejected this teaching and made the doctrine of Limbo her own.  BTW, the first theologian to challenge this teaching was Abelard ... the same guy who was against Baptism of Desire.  This notion that no theological errors can ever become widely adopted by Catholics is absurd.  It was fabricated by Cekada and some of the dogmatic sedes (although the Dimonds have a balanced view).  Now, either the Thomists or Molinists are wrong ... but the Church has allowed both positions to flourish, meaning that the Church has tolerated error.  There are myriad examples of this throughout Church history.  BoD will one day be recognized as one of these.

Some of the Cekadists here on CI have gone so far as to say that no book with an imprimatur can ever contain error, thereby equating some pamphlet written by Father Bob in Iowa with a solemn dogmatic teaching of a pope.  Their reasoning is that it is not possible for the Church to officially tolerate error.