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Author Topic: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy  (Read 21755 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #75 on: February 05, 2021, 11:56:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 05, 2021, 10:50:17 AM
    Fr Feeney never mentions St Thomas, nor invincible ignorance, nor Valentinian.  You are putting words in his mouth, then objecting to his imagined words.  You make no sense.
    The poor guy is a worker of iniquity Pax.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Papa Pius V

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #76 on: February 05, 2021, 11:57:57 AM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on February 05, 2021, 11:52:10 AM
    Really? Because he taught and defended the EENS dogma he's an obstinate heretic? You're simply another dishonest BODer who has nothing, so you shoot your spit wads at a deceased, courageous priest and theologian. At least being a legend in your own mind you certainly can't plead ignorance.

    Always remember that it is a defined dogma at Trent that the sacrament is necessary for salvation and without the sacrament men cannot be justified, not only that, but men cannot even be justified without the desire for the sacrament. To say that without the sacrament or the desire for the sacrament that men can be justified by faith alone as you keep saying, is, you guessed it, condemned with anathema.  
    Its like we are dancing in a circle here.

    Fr. Feeney was neither courageous nor was he a theologian. Rather he was a product of his time and a heretic who was on the opposite end of the spectrum to the disgusting apostate Cushing who should have been excommunicated and condemned far more aggressively than Feeney. Feeney's heresy is far less pernicious than Cushing's.

    Again for the millionth time, you don't get to interpret Trent.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #77 on: February 05, 2021, 12:02:31 PM »
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    • Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 05, 2021, 11:10:18 AM
    Again, Fr. Feeney was an obstinate heretic who had Calvinistic leanings and was condemned along with his positions by the Church.

    Can you explain more about how Fr. Feeney had Calvinistic leanings? I haven't head that before. I usually avoid discussions about Fr. Feeney, because I haven't studied much about him.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #78 on: February 05, 2021, 12:02:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 05, 2021, 11:57:57 AM
    Its like we are dancing in a circle here.
    Fr. Feeney was neither courageous nor was he a theologian. Rather he was a product of his time and a heretic who was on the opposite end of the spectrum to the disgusting apostate Cushing who should have been excommunicated and condemned far more aggressively than Feeney. Feeney's heresy is far less pernicious than Cushing's.
    Again for the millionth time, you don't get to interpret Trent.
    "One of the most outstanding prophets of our time." Hamish Fraser
    "The greatest theologian we have in the United States, by far." Rev. John J. McEleny, S.J., (Father's Jesuit Provincial)
     "The greatest theologian in the Catholic Church today." — John Cardinal Wright

    Again for the millionth time, you are the one misinterpreting Trent - and we finally agree, you don't get to do that.

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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stanley N

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #79 on: February 05, 2021, 12:03:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 05, 2021, 11:57:57 AM
    Feeney's heresy is far less pernicious than Cushing's.

    OK, so what do you think is the position of truth?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #80 on: February 05, 2021, 12:27:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on February 05, 2021, 12:02:31 PM
    Can you explain more about how Fr. Feeney had Calvinistic leanings? I haven't head that before. I usually avoid discussions about Fr. Feeney, because I haven't studied much about him.

    You haven't heard this because Papa doesn't know what he's talking about.  Father Feeney was no more Calvinist than St. Augustine was, with the latter rejecting Baptism of Desire in his later years due to his realization that it was implicitly Pelagian.  His suggestion that the anti-BoD position (held by a number of Church Fathers) is Calvinist actually sheds some light on his psychology, why he's so obsessed with promoting Baptism of Desire.

    This man clearly has some major ax to grid against Feeneyism other than simply being against it.  Lover of Heresy was on the same crusade due to his having "almost been" converted to Feeneyism ... or something like that.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #81 on: February 05, 2021, 12:30:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 05, 2021, 12:27:44 PM
    You haven't heard this because Papa doesn't know what he's talking about.  Father Feeney was no more Calvinist than St. Augustine was, with the latter rejecting Baptism of Desire in his later years due to his realization that it was implicitly Pelagian.  His suggestion that the anti-BoD position (held by a number of Church Fathers) is Calvinist actually sheds some light on his psychology, why he's so obsessed with promoting Baptism of Desire.

    This man clearly has some major ax to grid against Feeneyism other than simply being against it.  Lover of Heresy was on the same crusade due to his having "almost been" converted to Feeneyism ... or something like that.

    Okay, thanks. I still hope that Papa will respond, so that he can say why he thinks that Fr. Feeney had Calvinistic leanings. Maybe it has something to do with Calvin's goofy views on predestination, but maybe it doesn't. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #82 on: February 05, 2021, 12:35:00 PM »
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    • In point of fact, a majority of Feeneyites don't rule out BoD as a HYPOTHETICAL possibility, but hold that it simply doesn't happen because God cannot be thwarted by impossibility from bringing His elect to the Sacrament of Baptism.


    St. Augustine:
    Quote
    Perish the thought that a person predestined to eternal life could be allowed to end this life without the sacrament of the mediator.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #83 on: February 05, 2021, 12:37:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on February 05, 2021, 12:30:18 PM
    Okay, thanks. I still hope that Papa will respond, so that he can say why he thinks that Fr. Feeney had Calvinistic leanings. Maybe it has something to do with Calvin's goofy views on predestination, but maybe it doesn't.

    My guess is that his notion is related to Calvinistic predesination.  But St. Augustine's notion of predestination (alluded to in the previous citation I just made) has nothing to do with Calvinism, but, rather, anti-Pelagianism.

    Here's an excellent, scholarly, and well-balanced discussion regarding the theological status of Baptism of Desire:
    https://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #84 on: February 05, 2021, 12:46:29 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 05, 2021, 12:37:19 PM
    My guess is that his notion is related to Calvinistic predesination.  But St. Augustine's notion of predestination (alluded to in the previous citation I just made) has nothing to do with Calvinism, but, rather, anti-Pelagianism.

    Here's an excellent, scholarly, and well-balanced discussion regarding the theological status of Baptism of Desire:
    https://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html

    Thanks. I'll read the link.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Papa Pius V

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #85 on: February 05, 2021, 01:52:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on February 05, 2021, 12:02:35 PM
    "One of the most outstanding prophets of our time." Hamish Fraser
    "The greatest theologian we have in the United States, by far." Rev. John J. McEleny, S.J., (Father's Jesuit Provincial)
    "The greatest theologian in the Catholic Church today." — John Cardinal Wright

    Again for the millionth time, you are the one misinterpreting Trent - and we finally agree, you don't get to do that.
    A criterion of Catholic theology is the science of faith. Theology strives to understand what the Church believes and why it believes.
    Feeney did not hold to Church teaching therefore he was not a theologian in any real sense i.e no more a theologian than Pastor John Doe.

    I haven't even talked about Trent other than saying I won't talk about it   :laugh1:
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    Offline Papa Pius V

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #86 on: February 05, 2021, 01:55:06 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on February 05, 2021, 12:02:31 PM
    Can you explain more about how Fr. Feeney had Calvinistic leanings? I haven't head that before. I usually avoid discussions about Fr. Feeney, because I haven't studied much about him.
    https://stevensperay.wordpress.com/2018/04/26/how-feeneyism-is-like-calvinism/
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    Offline Papa Pius V

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #87 on: February 05, 2021, 01:56:35 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stanley N on February 05, 2021, 12:03:17 PM
    OK, so what do you think is the position of truth?
    The Church's position.
    BOB is for the explicitly believing martyr who was not baptized by water and who shed his blood for Christ, BOD is for the catechumen who desires baptism but dies before receiving it.
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    Offline Papa Pius V

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #88 on: February 05, 2021, 01:58:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 05, 2021, 12:27:44 PM
    You haven't heard this because Papa doesn't know what he's talking about.  Father Feeney was no more Calvinist than St. Augustine was, with the latter rejecting Baptism of Desire in his later years due to his realization that it was implicitly Pelagian.  His suggestion that the anti-BoD position (held by a number of Church Fathers) is Calvinist actually sheds some light on his psychology, why he's so obsessed with promoting Baptism of Desire.

    This man clearly has some major ax to grid against Feeneyism other than simply being against it.  Lover of Heresy was on the same crusade due to his having "almost been" converted to Feeneyism ... or something like that.
    What a stupid response.

    What is Calvinism but hyper-Augustinianism?

    St. Augustine's theology is not infallible as clearly seen by the Church's condemnation of both Calvinism and Jansenism, both of which are deeply Augustinian, more than the Catholic Church I might add.
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    Offline Papa Pius V

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #89 on: February 05, 2021, 02:00:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 05, 2021, 12:37:19 PM
    My guess is that his notion is related to Calvinistic predesination.  But St. Augustine's notion of predestination (alluded to in the previous citation I just made) has nothing to do with Calvinism, but, rather, anti-Pelagianism.

    Here's an excellent, scholarly, and well-balanced discussion regarding the theological status of Baptism of Desire:
    https://catholicism.org/baptism-of-desire-its-origin-and-abandonment-in-the-thought-of-saint-augustine.html
    The article was written by a Feeneyite organization, funny enough. Anyway its not a bad article. It is fair and well balanced, but again St. Augustine is not the Catholic Church.

    If you want Augustinianism then become a Calvinist or an Old Roman Catholic (Jansenism).
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