Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy  (Read 32775 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #65 on: February 05, 2021, 07:58:27 AM »
Trent never says a justified, unbaptized goes to heaven.  St Thomas THEORIZES they would go to purgatory.  But the Church has never said.  If you say otherwise, you’re delusional.
I wasn't talking about Trent.

St. Thomas says: No man obtains eternal life unless he be free from all guilt and debt of punishment. Now this plenary absolution is given when a man receives Baptism, or suffers martyrdom: for which reason is it stated that martyrdom "contains all the sacramental virtue of Baptism," i.e. as to the full deliverance from guilt and punishment. Suppose, therefore, a catechumen to have the desire for Baptism (else he could not be said to die in his good works, which cannot be without "faith that worketh by charity"), such a one, were he to die, would not forthwith come to eternal life, but would suffer punishment for his past sins, "but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire" as is stated 1 Corinthians 3:15.

After purgatory the catechumen goes to heaven eventually according to a Thomistic understanding.


As for some Church teachings on the matter:

In his decree about a Jew who, in danger of death, attempted to baptize himself, since those around his death bed refused to baptize him, Innocent III decrees:

We respond that, since there should be a distinction between the one baptizing and the one baptized, as is clearly gathered from the words of the Lord, when He says to the Apostles: "Go, baptize all nations in the name etc.," the Jew mentioned must be baptized again by another, that it may be shown that he who is baptized is one person, and he who baptizes another ... If, however, such a one had died immєdιαtely, he would have rushed to his heavenly home without delay because of the faith of the sacrament, although not because of the sacrament of faith (Dz. 413, emphasis added).

Pope Innocent II taught the same with regard to a priest, when after his death it was found that he had not been baptized. He writes:
Read (brother) in the eighth book of Augustine’s City of God where, among other things it is written, "Baptism is ministered invisibly to one whom not contempt of religion but death excludes." Read again the book also of the blessed Ambrose concerning the death of Valentinian where he says the same thing. Therefore, to questions concerning the dead, you should hold the opinions of the learned Fathers, and in your church you should join in prayers and you should have sacrifices offered to God for the priest mentioned (Innocent II, Letter Apostolicam Sedem, Dz. 388, emphasis added)

Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #66 on: February 05, 2021, 08:26:33 AM »
Pope Pius IX in the encyclical Quanto Conficiamur Moerore:

“There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.”


Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2021, 10:24:42 AM »
1.  These are OPINIONS, not Church teaching.  St Thomas is a man, not the Church.
2.  If you quote OPINIONS concerning Jews or the "invincibly ignorant" and mix-n-match this with OPINIONS like those concerning Valentinian's BOD, you contradict yourself.  Since BOD can't apply to non-catechumens, (which you earlier agreed with), then you can't apply these OPINIONS to the discussion.
3.  Valentinian's situation is the only one relevant to the discussion, because he was a catechumen, and even though SOME Church Fathers say he was saved, it is not an article of Faith, and anyone can question it, which is basically, Fr Feeney's outlook.
4.  Fr Feeney questions BOD because of the slippery slope which leads to believing in salvation for the "invincible ignorant" or "pious jew"...and such a slippery slope of sentimentality over facts was proved by yourself, who only a few posts ago, claimed that BOD only applied to catechumens.  If you can't see this danger, you need to ask God to show you.

Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2021, 10:35:12 AM »
1.  These are OPINIONS, not Church teaching.  St Thomas is a man, not the Church.
2.  If you quote OPINIONS concerning Jҽωs or the "invincibly ignorant" and mix-n-match this with OPINIONS like those concerning Valentinian's BOD, you contradict yourself.  Since BOD can't apply to non-catechumens, (which you earlier agreed with), then you can't apply these OPINIONS to the discussion.
3.  Valentinian's situation is the only one relevant to the discussion, because he was a catechumen, and even though SOME Church Fathers say he was saved, it is not an article of Faith, and anyone can question it, which is basically, Fr Feeney's outlook.
4.  Fr Feeney questions BOD because of the slippery slope which leads to believing in salvation for the "invincible ignorant" or "pious jew"...and such a slippery slope of sentimentality over facts was proved by yourself, who only a few posts ago, claimed that BOD only applied to catechumens.  If you can't see this danger, you need to ask God to show you.
1. Authoritative papal teachings are not opinions. St Thomas' writings are not mere opinions. He is a doctor and saint of the Church.
2. No, I don't because they are two separate things. Invincible ignorance and BOD are not the same thing. However I quoted Blessed Pius IX on invincible ignorance to show just how out of touch with reality and the magisterium Feeneyites are.
3. The near unanimous opinions of the Church Fathers, doctors, saints, and theologians makes the teachings de fide and anyone rejecting them is in mortal sin if not heresy.
4. BOD is only for catechumens. Invincible ignorance is another thing altogether. There is no danger to the faith from the magistetium of the Church.

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2021, 10:50:17 AM »
Fr Feeney never mentions St Thomas, nor invincible ignorance, nor Valentinian.  You are putting words in his mouth, then objecting to his imagined words.  You make no sense.