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The main logical flaw of BOD'ers is the assumption that a justified person gets to heaven.

The BODer justifies a person, then kills him before God completes His work, then asks what happens to the person? Total insanity.

St. Augustine: “If you wish to be a Catholic, do not venture to believe, to say, or to teach that ‘they whom the Lord has predestinated for baptism can be snatched away from his predestination, or die before that has been accomplished in them which the Almighty has predestined.’ There is in such a dogma more power than I can tell assigned to chances in opposition to the power of God, by the occurrence of which casualties that which He has predestinated is not permitted to come to pass. It is hardly necessary to spend time or earnest words in cautioning the man who takes up with this error against the absolute vortex of confusion into which it will absorb him, when I shall sufficiently meet the case if I briefly warn the prudent man who is ready to receive correction against the threatening mischief.” (On the Soul and Its Origin 3, 13)

I will come back to Archbishop +Lefebvre and Bishop +Fellay in a minute. Answer my question to you about Cornelius first, Last Trad.

St. Peter in Acts declared both that Our Lord Jesus is the Only Name by which we are saved, and that the Cornelius received BOD.

St. Augustine and St. Thomas both teach that Cornelius was justified by Baptism of Desire. Trent says those who die justified are saved.

I already said I don't consider St. Benedict's Centre's position to be heretical, but an acceptable Catholic position. Dimonds' is heretical.

Here is Fr. Haydock, Acts 10: "Can any man forbid water? &c. or doubt that these, on whom the Holy Ghost hath descended, may be made members of the Christian Church, by baptism, as Christ ordained? (Witham) --- Such may be the grace of God occasionally towards men, and such their great charity and contrition, that they may have remission, justification, and sanctification, before the external sacraments of baptism, confirmation, and penance be received; as we see in this example: where, at Peter's preaching, they all received the Holy Ghost before any sacrament. But here we also learn one necessary lesson, that such, notwithstanding, must needs receive the sacraments appointed by Christ, which whosoever contemneth, can never be justified. (St. Augustine, sup. Levit. q. 84. T. 4.)"

Stubborn, you've cited Fr. Haydock at times. Do you deny this? This is why Trent is careful to add "or the desire thereof" in that passage.

You are not even summarizing Trent correctly. It is not AND but OR. Your own response to my question shows the inference of the Doctors is correct.

I said "without water, or at least some juice" my thirst cannot be quenched, and thus I cannot live. From this, you correctly deduced that juice can substitute for water.

Apply the same here. WATER=BAPTISM. "JUICE"=DESIRE. Hence Pope St. Pius X correctly teaches that the absence of Baptism can be supplied by the Baptism of Desire.

Trent did not say "WITHOUT BAPTISM AND WITHOUT ITS DESIRE" as the Dimonds absurdly and heretically teach, to their own perdition, and those who follow them.

Trent taught, without Baptism or without its Desire, there is no return to original justice. That means (1) without Baptism, there is no justification, OR without at least (2) Baptism of Desire, there is no justification.

Thus the Canon of Trent is correctly in reiterated in Canon Law "Baptism, in fact or at least in desire necessary for salvation unto all". Baptism, or its desire, is necessary for justification, and justification for salvation.

Vatican I condemned your idea that the Church can misunderstand Her own dogmas for 500 years before folks like the Dimonds come along and correct Her. The Church's traditional understanding of Dogma is Infallible.

Trent also teaches elsewhere that the justified are withing the Church and children of God. Quoting the Word of Christ, Trent dogmatically affirmed that those who die justified will certainly be saved, in due time.

See: http://archives.sspx.org/miscellaneous/feeneyism/three_errors_of_feeneyites.htm by Rev. Fr. Francois Laisney.

"When the Council of Trent is read carefully, we see that the Council teaches that:

...it is necessary to believe that the justified have everything necessary for them to be regarded as having completely satisfied the divine law for this life by their works, at least those which they have performed in God. And they may be regarded as having likewise truly merited the eternal life they will certainly attain in due time (if they but die in the state of grace) (see Apoc. 14:13; 606, can. 32), because Christ our Savior says: "He who drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst, but it will become in him a fountain of water, springing up into life everlasting" (see Jn. 4:13 ff.)[8] [Session VI, Chap. 16; Dz 809]."

What else? Oh yes.

Ledeg, what you quoted says the Summa can be read with much spiritual profit. What I quoted says that St. Alphonsus' teaching in Moral Theology can be safely repeated by anyone, even those who don't know the reason. Beside, Pope St. Pius X and Pope Leo XIII, in their Catechisms, approved and made their known the doctrine of St. Alphonsus on Baptism of Desire. The Church has spoken on it.

I think that is all. God Bless.