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Author Topic: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy  (Read 21552 times)

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Offline Stubborn

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Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyites
« Reply #150 on: February 07, 2021, 11:33:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 07, 2021, 11:28:31 AM
    An excommunicated schimatic heretic such as yourself has no say on who is Catholic or not.
    You don't follow Catholic dogma. You follow Stubborn's dogma.
    It's well known that all Libs *always* falsely accuse others of the very thing they themselves are guilty of. The Libs do this to derail the subject and because they are dishonest. 
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyites
    « Reply #151 on: February 07, 2021, 11:44:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 07, 2021, 11:37:36 AM
    St. Alphonsus Liguori and St. Thomas Aquinas and the near unanimity of theologians the past two hundred years is "Lib" while big boy here is the true interpreter of Trent  :facepalm: :laugh2:
    LOL, see what I mean! I am done with you, but feel free to keep searching for loopholes in dogma.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #152 on: February 07, 2021, 12:57:22 PM »
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    • Pius, you derailed your own BOD thread long ago, when you irrelevantly introduced the topic of "invincible ignorance".  You've smoked too much asbestos.
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #153 on: February 07, 2021, 01:20:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: Papa Pius V on February 07, 2021, 11:27:13 AM
    What an idiotic response.

    I was not talking about the entire system of Calvinism, but specifically as it relates to predestination.

    I've read many of Calvin's works including the Institutes of The Christian Religion and his two treatises on Divine Predestination, The Eternal Predestination of God' and 'The Secret Providence of God'

    Scholars say "Calvinism" in two senses. One as the totality of Calvin's beliefs to which you most unkindly explained above and secondly, more specifically, as it relates to his beliefs in predestination.

    See here: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0916206327/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0916206327&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20 />
    Fair enough then I guess I just don't like that use of words.

    While ultimately of course a *refusal* to submit to the Church is heresy and leads to damnation, someone who held to every Catholic doctrine *except for predestination* (where he agreed with Calvin) would still be a lot closer to the theology of Catholicism than of Calvin.
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    Offline Catholic Ram

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #154 on: February 07, 2021, 02:24:55 PM »
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    • Father Feeney and Fr. Wathen were the best American Catholic teachers. They had more knowledge and wisdom than most theologians around the world.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #155 on: February 08, 2021, 05:23:09 AM »
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    • Quote from: Catholic Ram on February 07, 2021, 02:24:55 PM
    Father Feeney and Fr. Wathen were the best American Catholic teachers. They had more knowledge and wisdom than most theologians around the world.
    I agree. I think that one of the traits they shared that made them such, particularly when it comes to a BOD, was that their teachings were always inclusive of the Divine Providence, which when it comes to a BOD, there is no Divine Providence whatsoever in a BOD, as if by design. 








     
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #156 on: February 08, 2021, 05:58:36 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 05, 2021, 05:29:47 PM
    To the best of our ability, yes.  I admit that we have a vacuum of authority here and so laymen are stuck trying to resolve these issues on our own.  Sure, we can look to priests, but they too are divided, so there's the question of having to decide which priests or groups of priests to hitch our wagons to.
    Trouble is, they really aren't. Almost every clergyman alive, be he NO, SSPX, Sede, you name it, believes in a form of BoD more extreme than anyone would dare articulate on this forum. 
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #157 on: February 08, 2021, 08:12:48 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on February 08, 2021, 05:58:36 AM
    Trouble is, they really aren't. Almost every clergyman alive, be he NO, SSPX, Sede, you name it, believes in a form of BoD more extreme than anyone would dare articulate on this forum.

    Right, very few believe that one must be Catholic in order to be saved, thinking that Buddhists in Tibet and Muslims can be saved somehow (+Lefebvre and +Fellay even) ... so going well beyond the Thomistic understanding of BoD.
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    Offline andy

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #158 on: February 08, 2021, 01:09:34 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 08, 2021, 08:12:48 AM
    Right, very few believe that one must be Catholic in order to be saved, thinking that Buddhists in Tibet and Muslims can be saved somehow (+Lefebvre and +Fellay even) ... so going well beyond the Thomistic understanding of BoD.
    What is the position of +Williamson on "Buddhists in Tibet and Muslims can be saved somehow" and fr. Feeney position?
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #159 on: February 08, 2021, 01:16:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: andy on February 08, 2021, 01:09:34 PM
    What is the position of +Williamson on "Buddhists in Tibet and Muslims can be saved somehow" and fr. Feeney position?

    I noticed in HE's set of lectures and sermons (30 years worth), when he speaks of Father Feeney, his usual eloquence starts to fade and he begins to mumble.

    :laugh1:
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #160 on: February 08, 2021, 01:24:26 PM »
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    • At the end of every Tridentine Mass, BOD/BOB and Salvation outside the Catholic Church are destroyed by the Last Gospel of St. John.




    (St. John 1.1-14)


     “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him: and without Him was made nothing that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the Light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
     
     There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the Light, that all men might believe through Him. He was not the Light, but was to give testimony of the Light. That was the true Light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.
     
     He came unto His own, and His own received Him not. But as many as received Him, He gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in His name. Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (here all kneel)
      
    AND THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH AND DWELT AMONG US,
      
    and we saw His glory, the glory as it were of the Only Begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.”

    Thanks be to God. 

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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Carissima

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #161 on: February 08, 2021, 02:54:53 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 08, 2021, 08:12:48 AM
    Right, very few believe that one must be Catholic in order to be saved, thinking that Buddhists in Tibet and Muslims can be saved somehow (+Lefebvre and +Fellay even) ... so going well beyond the Thomistic understanding of BoD.
    This is why BOD and BOB are so dangerous to begin with. The floodgates have been opened to all sorts of errors and heresies regarding Sacramental Baptism, because some people insist on teaching that it is necessary to believe in an ‘invisible sacrament’, when Sacraments are meant to be outward signs of grace. 
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #162 on: February 08, 2021, 03:15:42 PM »
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    • Quote from: Carissima on February 08, 2021, 02:54:53 PM
    This is why BOD and BOB are so dangerous to begin with. The floodgates have been opened to all sorts of errors and heresies regarding Sacramental Baptism, because some people insist on teaching that it is necessary to believe in an ‘invisible sacrament’, when Sacraments are meant to be outward signs of grace.

    Yes, it's incredibly dangerous.  While BoD CAN be understood in such a way as not to undermine Traditional Catholic ecclesiology, understanding the Church as a Visible Society, and while maintaining the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism, it is RARELY articulated in a manner that does not implicitly deny these dogmas.  90% of those who believe in BoD aren't interested in the rare case of a catechumen who dies before Baptism, but use it as a weapon to undermine EENS dogma.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #163 on: February 08, 2021, 07:01:23 PM »
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    • Doing away with the necessity of baptism is bad, but doing away with the necessity of Christ is just too much:

    "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same HATH NOT the Father . . ."

    1 John 2:23

    So much for the "other great Monotheistic religions."
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Carissima

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    Re: The Absurdities of The Feeneyite Heresy
    « Reply #164 on: February 08, 2021, 07:16:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on February 08, 2021, 03:15:42 PM
    90% of those who believe in BoD aren't interested in the rare case of a catechumen who dies before Baptism, but use it as a weapon to undermine EENS dogma.
    But see those who are opening the door to the possibility of that One Catechumen supposedly dying without the Sacrament of Baptism (but still obtaining Salvation) this would then lead automatically to the idea that anyone could potentially skip past the Visible Sacrament, because there’s an invisible option available too. 
    It’s opening the door to these exceptions that is causing the problem in the first place. Like when the smoke of Satan entered into the Vatican.

    As far as BOB is concerned, say in the case of St Emerentiana. We need to maintain the importance of Sacramental Baptism, so it would make more sense then to believe that Emerentiana did in fact receive Water Baptism at some point before her death, and not to assume she died without it. 
    Again, it’s all about maintaining the absolute necessity of Baptism by Water and The Holy Ghost, as Christ and The Church has always taught us. 
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