Author Topic: The Absolute necessity of Water Baptism (Read 21476 times)

CM · « **Reply #50 on:** August 17, 2009, 07:51:17 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

I was raised to be an apostate by apostate parents.

Now all I can do is show them the proper example, by exhorting them to convert out of their apostasy like I have, but they are too stuck in the mire of the world to do it.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #51 on:** August 18, 2009, 01:19:45 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Anybody who reads this thread can see that I love my parents enough to admonish them for being heretics, and to abstain from communion with them...
"...I answer that, Excommunication is twofold: there is minor excommunication...[and]...major excommunication..."

Do you understand what it means to actually be excommunicated, as in BY DECREE, etc? This is what St Thomas is speaking about in the quote you provided. You are mixing it all up, throwing away any opportunity to be of any truly good example to your parents (or anyone else).

You call people heretics left and right, yet you know NOTHING of their interior disposition. In days so wild as these, material heretics abound. To presume that ALL are also formal, as you clearly do, is so contrary to charity, and even common sense, I say again: You view things through a far too dark lens.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #52 on:** August 18, 2009, 01:38:52 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

She taught me how to eat healthy. I'm grateful...sure. But these are of no value for salvation, which is the chief interest of any wise person.

Well, gratitude is GOOD, even when it pertains to merely natural matters. Btw, grace BUILDS UPON nature; it does not DESTROY it.

Eating in a healthy way can be more connected to salvation than you might think, as the operations of the soul depend upon the body in one manner or another, although it is certainly not everything.

The subjection of body to spirit is not about destroying nature. It is about curbing unruly passions so as bring the body into a proper subjection to the soul. Oddly enough, those infected with Calvinist/Manichean/Jansenist mentality always get it wrong, seeking to destroy the very nature they NEED in order to be super-naturalized in any way.

CM · « **Reply #53 on:** August 18, 2009, 12:43:05 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Do you understand what it means to actually be excommunicated, as in BY DECREE, etc?

Get real. You're basically saying, then, that nobody is ever subject to latae sententiae, automatic excommunication, or you're saying that we cannot know for certainty that a person has been subject to it, or that even if we can know, we are not bound to treat them this way (by admonition and avoidance).

A person claiming to be Catholic, and believing the Athanasian Creed, goes to an 'Eastern Orthodox' service with a friend once every two months. Is the person excommunicated, Gladius?

Why or why not? And are we allowed to pray and worship with the person while we know he is resolved to continue going to the 'Orthodox' service with his friend?

Quote from: gladius veritatis

grace BUILDS UPON nature; it does not DESTROY it

I never stated contrary to this, don't try to twist my words.

CM · « **Reply #54 on:** August 18, 2009, 12:44:05 PM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

A person claiming to be Catholic, and believing the Athanasian Creed

Or do you think this is a contradiction?