Author Topic: The Absolute necessity of Water Baptism (Read 36584 times)

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #30 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:53:25 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

It says all those who die, not all those who died. Present tense, not past tense.

I understand the concept of verb tenses very well, CM. So, are you arguing that (sans infallible decree), pre-Gospel and/or pre-Florence people might have been able to die unjustified, yet receive justification post-mortem? Do we need an ex cathedra decree about it all to realize the truth of the matter? HeL-Lo-O!!!

CM · « **Reply #31 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:06:58 PM »

What I am saying is what I have said.

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Getting into Old Testament justification is neither necessary (since it is no longer relevant) or prudent (since the answers are nowhere to be found).

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #32 on:** August 17, 2009, 01:10:07 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

What I am saying is what I have said.

No offense, but you are clearly avoiding the subject because your understanding of the matter, and it importance, is non-existent.

Have you ever read How Christ Said the First Mass? It is NOT irrelevant or imprudent to study the ins and outs of the old dispensation. It is actually quite fascinating and fruitful. It is AMAZING how wonderfully ALL was prefigured in often sublime ways.

CM · « **Reply #33 on:** August 17, 2009, 02:16:46 AM »

Alright, I have come to an understanding regarding Old Testament justification, thanks to St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas and the Catholic Encyclopedia.

As far as I understand it, circuмcision remitted original sin and actual sin, but not the punishment due to sin. This was performed ex opere operantis based on faith in Christ to come.

If this can be shown to be wrong I will, of course, amend my position. If it is right, however, it in no way exonerates your heresy.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #34 on:** August 17, 2009, 02:58:47 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

If it is right, however, it in no way exonerates your heresy.

Your graciousness overwhelms me, CM. :wink:

All the same, I am glad to see that you eventually decided to "waste your time" doing a little more study on the matter, 'irrelevant and imprudent' though it seemed at first sight.

There is much we think is one way that, upon investigation, turns out to be very different from our initial impression/idea. The older we get, the more clearly we see this fact of life.