Author Topic: The Absolute necessity of Water Baptism (Read 21663 times)

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #25 on:** August 16, 2009, 02:48:40 AM »

Quote from: Dawn

Umm, didn't everything change with Christ? So, that what happened before Christ no longer pertained as he instituted the sacraments.

Yes, but the same principles apply. In God, there is neither shadow of change nor alteration. He operates in the same way, always, despite the fact that he uses different instruments at different moments.

The point is: People WERE being justified outside of the sacramentally-prefiguring Mosaic prescriptions.

By calling it all "irrelevant" or "imprudent" is simply ducking the question. St John, for example, was certainly justified in his mother's womb, not through circuмcision (which was gfranted efficacy with a view to, and through, Christ's merits), although he would undoubtedly have been circuмcised when born.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #26 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:44:05 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

I did some reading about Old Testament justification, and couldn't find anywhere that a cause for was declared.

It is not necessary to do extra reading to realize the cause for ANY justification, at ANY time post-Fall, is the merits of Christ Crucified. It is all just a question of how those merits are applied.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #27 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:49:53 AM »

Quote from: Dawn

Umm, didn't everything change with Christ?

Actually, all was perfected. That which served as a prefiguration passed away when the reality arrived.

"I came not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill it."

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #28 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:54:06 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

Getting into Old Testament justification is neither necessary (since it is no longer relevant) or prudent (since the answers are nowhere to be found).

If you think it is remotely possible that ALL people were dying without being justified, but SOME were hanging out in Limbo in said state, and were subsequently justified post-mortem, "getting into OT justification" is rather necessary.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #29 on:** August 16, 2009, 05:48:11 AM »

Quote from: Catholic Martyr

The Catholic Church teaches that the legal prescriptions of the Mosaic Law are obsolete...

Thanks for clarifying that one. :wink: