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Author Topic: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance  (Read 6983 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
« on: August 19, 2023, 07:41:55 AM »
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  • Pope St. Pius X, Acerbo Nimis (# 2), April 15, 1905: “And so Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV, had just cause to write: ‘We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect.’” "We pray and entreat you to reflect on the great loss of souls due solely to ignorance of divine things."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #1 on: August 19, 2023, 07:54:15 AM »
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  • Yes, he's referring to ignorance of the minimal truths necessary to be known in order for there to be salvation, which are belief in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation.

    For 1500 years, the Church taught and every Catholic without exception believed that knowledge of the Holy Trinity and Incarnation (basic knowledge about Our Lord and the Holy Trinity) were necessary for salvation.  But a Franciscan and some Jesuits came along and invented "Rewarder God" theory, where you just had to believe that there is a God who rewards the good and punishes the wicked.  This was developed for emotional reasons after the discovery of the New World, the Americas.

    I love it how the majority of BoDers claim that we must accept a consensus of theologians for about 400 years as definitive of Catholic dogma, but then think it was OK and permissible for these guys to come along and reject 1500 years of unanimous, unquestioned Catholic teaching.  They'll cite St. Thomas as an authority on BoD but then ignore St. Thomas when he too teaches explicit knowledge of Our Lord and the Holy Trinity are necessary for salvation.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #2 on: August 19, 2023, 08:03:35 AM »
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  • In the 1700s, someone wrote to the Holy Office asking whether it would be permitted to baptize someone in an emergency (danger of death) if they had only come to believe in the existence of God but had not been taught about Our Lord and the Holy Trinity.  Answer from the Holy Office was a definitive no.  See, if this were a disputed or doubted question, they could at least conditionally baptized someone.  This demonstrates that there's no room for doubt here.  This ruling of the Holy Office is also ignored by those who claim that infidels can be saved.  And that's where the dishonesty starts to manifest itself.  They'll promote Suprema Haec, which doesn't even appear in AAS and could very well be fraudulent or at least doctored, as if it were a dogmatic Bull.  That's why they give it the Latin name, to make it seem like an Encyclical or Bull.  But then they'll completely ignore this other ruling of the Holy Office.

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #3 on: August 19, 2023, 10:57:42 AM »
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  • A great reminder of how great a gift God has given to those with supernatural Faith, particularly in such a profoundly wicked era.
    "Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is all man."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #4 on: August 19, 2023, 12:38:06 PM »
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  • St. Alphonsus also made a striking statement where he writes that in the pagan lands where they've never heard of the faith, "all are lost".


    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #5 on: August 19, 2023, 10:31:16 PM »
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  • In the 1700s, someone wrote to the Holy Office asking whether it would be permitted to baptize someone in an emergency (danger of death) if they had only come to believe in the existence of God but had not been taught about Our Lord and the Holy Trinity.  Answer from the Holy Office was a definitive no.  See, if this were a disputed or doubted question, they could at least conditionally baptized someone.  This demonstrates that there's no room for doubt here.  This ruling of the Holy Office is also ignored by those who claim that infidels can be saved.  And that's where the dishonesty starts to manifest itself.  They'll promote Suprema Haec, which doesn't even appear in AAS and could very well be fraudulent or at least doctored, as if it were a dogmatic Bull.  That's why they give it the Latin name, to make it seem like an Encyclical or Bull.  But then they'll completely ignore this other ruling of the Holy Office.
    Very good to know. So if I ever have to emergency baptism someone, I should first tell them about the Incarnation and the Trinity. How much to they have to know/accept?

    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #6 on: August 20, 2023, 03:03:54 PM »
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  • In the 1700s, someone wrote to the Holy Office asking whether it would be permitted to baptize someone in an emergency (danger of death) if they had only come to believe in the existence of God but had not been taught about Our Lord and the Holy Trinity.  Answer from the Holy Office was a definitive no.  See, if this were a disputed or doubted question, they could at least conditionally baptized someone.  This demonstrates that there's no room for doubt here.  This ruling of the Holy Office is also ignored by those who claim that infidels can be saved.  And that's where the dishonesty starts to manifest itself.  They'll promote Suprema Haec, which doesn't even appear in AAS and could very well be fraudulent or at least doctored, as if it were a dogmatic Bull.  That's why they give it the Latin name, to make it seem like an Encyclical or Bull.  But then they'll completely ignore this other ruling of the Holy Office.


    Lad, where is the reference for this, in the AAS? Anything in English?
    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #7 on: August 20, 2023, 03:19:43 PM »
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  • Lad, where is the reference for this, in the AAS? Anything in English?
    First two citations in the following excerpt from MHFM's book:

    Response of the Sacred Office to the Bishop of Quebec, Jan. 25, 1703:
    “Q. Whether a minister is bound, before baptism is conferred on an adult, to explain to him all the mysteries of our faith, especially if he is at the point of death, because this might disturb his mind. Or, whether it is sufficient, if the one at the point of death will promise that when he recovers from the illness, he will take care to be instructed, so that he might put into practice what has been commanded him.
    “A. A promise is not sufficient, but a missionary is bound to explain to an adult, even a dying one who is not entirely incapacitated, the mysteries of faith which are necessary by a necessity of means, as are especially the mysteries of the Trinity and the Incarnation.”93

    Another question was posed at the same time and answered the same way.

    Response of the Sacred Office to the Bishop of Quebec, Jan. 25, 1703:
    “Q. Whether it is possible for a crude and uneducated adult, as it might be with a barbarian, to be baptized, if there were given him only an understanding of God and some of His attributes… although he does not believe explicitly in Jesus Christ.
    “A. A missionary should not baptize one who does not believe explicitly in the Lord Jesus Christ, but is bound to instruct him about all those matters which are necessary, by a necessity of means, in accordance with the capacity of the one to be baptized.”94

    93 Denzinger 1349a.

    94 Denzinger 1349b.

    See for yourself here: http://patristica.net/denzinger/#n1300


    The dogma that belief in the Trinity and Incarnation is absolutely necessary for salvation for all those above the age of reason is also the teaching of St. Thomas Aquinas, Pope Benedict XIV and Pope St. Pius X.

    St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica: “After grace had been revealed, both the learned and simple folk are bound to explicit faith in the mysteries of Christ, chiefly as regards those which are observed throughout the Church, and publicly proclaimed, such as the articles which refer to the Incarnation, of which we have spoken above.”95

    Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica: “And consequently, when once grace had been revealed, all were bound to explicit faith in the mystery of the Trinity.96

    Pope Benedict XIV, cuм Religiosi (# 1), June 26, 1754:
    “We could not rejoice, however, when it was subsequently reported to Us that in the course of religious instruction preparatory to Confession and Holy Communion, it was very often found that these people were ignorant of the mysteries of the faith, even those matters which must be known by necessity of means; consequently they were ineligible to partake of the Sacraments.”97

    Pope Benedict XIV, cuм Religiosi (# 4):


    “See to it that every minister performs carefully the measures laid down by the holy Council of Trent… that confessors should perform this part of their duty whenever anyone stands at their tribunal who does not know what he must by necessity of means know to be saved…”98

    Those above the age of reason who are ignorant of these absolutely necessary mysteries of the Catholic Faith – these mysteries which are a “necessity of means” – cannot be numbered among the elect, as Pope St. Pius X confirms.

    Pope St. Pius X, Acerbo Nimis (# 2), April 15, 1905:
    “And so Our Predecessor, Benedict XIV, had just cause to write: ‘We declare that a great number of those who are condemned to eternal punishment suffer that everlasting calamity because of ignorance of those mysteries of faith which must be known and believed in order to be numbered among the elect.’”99

    So let those who believe that salvation is possible for those who don’t believe in Christ and the Trinity (which is “the Catholic Faith” if defined in terms of its simplest mysteries) change their position and align it with Catholic dogma. There is no other name under all of heaven whereby a man is saved other than the Lord Jesus (Acts 4:12). Let them cease contradicting the Athanasian Creed and let them confess that knowledge of these mysteries is absolutely necessary for the salvation of all who wish to be saved. They must firmly hold this so they can themselves possess the Catholic Faith and profess this creed with honesty and as our Catholic forefathers did.



    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #8 on: August 20, 2023, 03:23:55 PM »
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  • The book is available online for free here: https://schismatic-home-aloner.com/outside-the-church-there-is-no-salvation/

    It covers almost every single objection to John 3:5 and the Athanasian creed and many dogmatic proofs for the necessity of the Catholic faith and the necessity of being born again of water and the spirit.

    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #9 on: August 20, 2023, 03:48:36 PM »
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  • St Jerome said that ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Jesus Christ.  
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #10 on: August 23, 2023, 12:54:31 AM »
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  • 2Corinthians 4:3-4
    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #11 on: August 23, 2023, 08:22:37 AM »
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  • Quote
    Very good to know. So if I ever have to emergency baptism someone, I should first tell them about the Incarnation and the Trinity. How much to they have to know/accept?
    My opinion is, you'd ask the person 

    1) Are you a catholic?  If they say yes, then you'd ask if they want a priest.  In an emergency, you'd ask them if they want to say an act of contrition with you.
    2) If they aren't a catholic, then you ask them if they are baptized.
    3) If they are baptized, then you ask them if they want to say an act of contrition.
    4) If they aren't baptized, then you'd ask them if they know that that is?  Do they want to become a catholic?
    5) If yes, then you'd ask them:  
    a) Do you believe that Jesus Christ was born into this world to save us from our sins and to start a Church?
    b) Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and also part of the Trinity - the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
    6) If they know about these truths, then you could baptize.
    7) If they don't know, then you could explain it to them, (depending on the time the emergency allows), and then baptize.

    If it's a true emergency, then you'll have to pray and go with what the Holy Ghost inspires you.

    Offline OABrownson1876

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #12 on: August 23, 2023, 08:34:35 AM »
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  • Blessed Christopher Columbus finding all of those "good, poor natives" in the late fifteenth century really did a number on the Catholic theology of salvation.  Because now we must find some way to get all of these people into heaven without the Faith. My answer is: That poor native running around with a bone in his nose is not much different than your Baptist grandma who gives her weekly retirement check to the television evangelists.  The native knows he is not good, and grandma thinks she is good, but they both go to hell in that state.    
    Bryan Shepherd, M.A. Phil.
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    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #13 on: August 23, 2023, 07:27:20 PM »
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  • 2Corinthians 4:3-4
    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.
    Blessed Christopher Columbus finding all of those "good, poor natives" in the late fifteenth century really did a number on the Catholic theology of salvation.  Because now we must find some way to get all of these people into heaven without the Faith. My answer is: That poor native running around with a bone in his nose is not much different than your Baptist grandma who gives her weekly retirement check to the television evangelists.  The native knows he is not good, and grandma thinks she is good, but they both go to hell in that state.   
    I don't understand how people (in the church) could be led so astray when St Paul literally tells us the why people who don't hear the gospel remain ignorant...

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: St Pius X and Ben XIV against invincible ignorance
    « Reply #14 on: August 24, 2023, 06:36:15 AM »
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  • Beware of Sin in Ignorance.
    A good sermon by Fr. Wathen on the subject, 13:24 long.

    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse