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Author Topic: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!  (Read 4389 times)

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Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2021, 12:41:30 PM »
Xavier, your last post was a terrible patchwork of lies and distortions.  You show yourself to be completely dishonest.  I'll try to pick it apart as I have time.
Why bother? Just have him reveal his real belief. He is a fɾαυd pretending to limit his belief to the harmless BOD of the catechumen when his real belief is the same as Lover of Truth and all the others like them. He simply believes that at death when God appears to the infidel in person and shows them the truth, that they will convert and be saved without the sacrament of baptism. So, much for faith and an invisible God! He won't even answer my simple question, how does anyone expect him to answer anything clearly? I do not think he reads anything of what anyone writes before copy and pasting more old material.

Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2021, 01:00:50 PM »
You are clearly influenced by the Dimonds to an extent. Your malicious accusations are another proof of it, Ladislaus. The Dimonds have no charity toward anyone, and have excommunicated everyone including you. Yet you say, "This demonstrates that you are dishonest, a bad-willed liar, to use a Dimond term that here seems to imply." That you use their terminology shows you agree with their slimy methods. I am a practicing Catholic regardless of whatever you choose to believe. I do not believe in lies. I believe in Truth and in confessing the Truth. If there is a serious doubt about something, that doubt needs to be resolved by reference to Catholic authorities. 

These words: "would have rushed to his heavenly home without delay because of the faith of the sacrament, although not because of the sacrament of faith" can very well mean the person who baptized himself invalidly, and received Baptism of Desire, went to Heaven before the end of the world, and not after the Resurrection, and nothing more. You interpret it differently based on your own idea.

The other letter is clear. And you didn't answer my question about Emperor Valentian. For the nth time. Nor about the elusive manual.

Next, cite the letter from Pope Innocent III you are talking about. Sometimes a Pope gives an opinion without deciding the question.

That's what St. Thomas, IIRC, was talking about. That doesn't apply here because the Pope is deciding a question the Bishop asked.

Pope Pius XII said when a Pope decides a question up until that time disputed, that question is no longer an open question among Catholics. If you can cite just one manual, as I keep asking you, post Innocent III or post Trent, that says BOD is open, I'll change my mind. Can you? Can you show me any Doctor in the whole last millenium who denies BOD, or even says its an open question?

I have no idea why you keep citing St. Gregory of Nyssa. St. Gregory of Nyssa was a well known universalist who believed in apocatastasis. The Church later rejected the Origenism behind it in the Fifth Ecuмenical Council. Still want to believe an individual Father is infallible, even after the Church has closed the question in the opposite direction? I believe exactly as St. Robert believed. Baptism of Blood was always certain, even in the Patristic Age, but Baptism of Desire, at first disputed, was settled by the Church later.

See: "This doctrine was explicitly taught by St. Gregory of Nyssa, and in more than one passage. It first occurs in his "De animâ et resurrectione" (P.G., XLVI, cols. 100, 101) where, in speaking of the punishment by fire assigned to souls after death, he compares it to the process whereby gold is refined in a furnace, through being separated from the dross with which it is alloyed." https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01599a.htm

MR. Last Tradhican, that Catechism I cited was approved by Rome, so you are wrong. I confess those who die as infidels are lost. 

I believe those who die with the Catholic Faith, having received Baptism of Desire or of Perfect Contrition, will be saved.

I know that will not be enough for you, who will still find various reasons to continue to deny, or at least not confess, BOD.

You know you cannot condemn us who believe in BOD without also condemning Pope St. Pius X and St. Alphonsus etc.

Either you condemn them also, like Ibranyi heretically does, or you admit that you have no grounds to oppose those who follow them.

Pope St. Pius X, whom you quoted above, clearly teaches BOD in his Catechism. Both are true: BOD, and those who die as infidels are lost. You deny one. I believe both. If Pope St. Pius X were here, and you obstinately persisted in denying BOD, H.H. would excommunicate you, and you know it. He cannot and will not excommunicate those of us whose only fault is we believe ALL his teaching. Only the future holy Pope will probably be able to settle this controversy. You BOD-deniers probably won't like how it ends. I hope you will submit to the Church at least at that future time. In the meanwhile, condemn the Saints as Ibranyi does, or admit you cannot condemn those who hold to the teaching of the Popes, Doctors and Saints. You are in error, not us.


Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2021, 02:16:08 PM »

 I confess those who die as infidels are lost. I believe those who die with the Catholic Faith, having received Baptism of Desire or of Perfect Contrition, will be saved.
Translation to the truth:


Quote
I XavierSem confess that those who die as infidels are lost, however, no one but God knows who the infidels are and who did not die with the Catholic Faith, not having received Baptism of Desire or Perfect Contrition in the last seconds when God appeared to them. Baptism of desire can save people in all religions who "only appear" to have died as non-Catholics.

Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
« Reply #28 on: February 18, 2021, 02:27:50 PM »
I thought the Catechism of Pope SPX was published after his death. Is it fair to attribute everything in that catechism to him?  Also, I remember reading that not all catechisms are infallible. I am not trying to play the "infallibility" card. Just sayin'.

Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2021, 02:41:18 PM »
Quote
Tallin Trad asked: Now that the Catholic Church has wrecked itself and 99% blindly follow Francis the destroyer, there is not much salvation inside it either.

I'd say I am reasonably sure, 90% that both the sincere and virtuous Tibetan monk and the modern contracepted Catholic Democrat mother and father of two children are BOTH damned.

The second most likely option 10% is that the monk is saved and the modern Catholic Bıdɛn supporting parents are damned.   The monk has at least been as virtuous as he could be.

I would assume the Good Samaritan went to heaven otherwise what was the point of the story?  I know he was fictional but such people exist in real life.  I don't see how in justice a Samaritan who did not know Christ is saved but a Tibetan monk is not.
Good Samaritan did not need to be baptized, he died before the new covenant and did not go to heaven. He went to paradise to be with all the just from Adam and Eve on up, who also were saved to paradise without baptism. At the Ascension, Our Lord opened the gates of Heaven and all the souls in paradise were finally able to enter.

As to the monk and all "good" non-Catholics vs. bad Catholics:

St. Peter Julian Eymard – Bad Catholic vs Good Protestant

People often say, “It is better to be a good Protestant than a bad Catholic.” That is not true! That would mean that one could be saved without the true faith. No. A bad Catholic remains a child of the family, although a prodigal; and however great a sinner he may be, he still has a right to mercy. Through his faith, a bad Catholic is nearer to God than a Protestant, for he is a member of the household, whereas the heretic is not. And how hard it is to make him become one!

St. Peter Julian Eymard