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Author Topic: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!  (Read 3268 times)

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Offline Incredulous

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Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2021, 03:26:09 PM »
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  • You also lie in claiming that St. John Vianney "taught" anything.

    Allegedly he simply told someone Fr. that he would receive a letter that would console him.

    Allegedly this letter was written by some unknown alleged mystic.

    Nowhere did St. John Vianney endorse its contents, if it even existed, but merely said that Fr. would be "consoled" by it ... which he was (allegedly).

    This proves something?

    As with any popular saint, thousands of apocryphal sayings are alleged of them, most of which are completely made up.  There are many such attributed to Padre Pio that have been debunked as false.

    In most of these Saintly BOD/BOB anecdotal stories, it seems some critical details are left out ?  

    The stories are presented to make the BOD/BOB points but, there always seems to be unanswered questions surrounding the events.

    Rosalie Cohen received the miraculous grace of the Faith.
    She acknowledges Our Lord, then kneels down at His feet and dies.

    But if she did receive the grace of the Faith, it would seem her first emotions should be sorrow for her sins and an immєdιαte desire for Baptism?

    Not just, “Oh, I get it now!”

    In fact, if we are to believe this story, Rosalie needed to make that her dying words... “Baptism Oh Lord!”
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #31 on: February 18, 2021, 03:50:52 PM »
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  • Selfish interjection here:  While we're on the topic, can you all say a prayer for my mother's conversion, that she ask for baptism (probably from me) before her death?  Although she's still doing okay, she is 88 years old now.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #32 on: February 18, 2021, 03:55:16 PM »
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  • In most of these Saintly BOD/BOB anecdotal stories, it seems some critical details are left out ?  

    The stories are presented to make the BOD/BOB points but, there always seems to be unanswered questions surrounding the events.

    Rosalie Cohen received the miraculous grace of the Faith.
    She acknowledges Our Lord, then kneels down at His feet and dies.

    But if she did receive the grace of the Faith, it would seem her first emotions should be sorrow for her sins and an immєdιαte desire for Baptism?

    Not just, “Oh, I get it now!”

    In fact, if we are to believe this story, Rosalie needed to make that her dying words... “Baptism Oh Lord!”
    Yes, something is off here.  Father would have specifically asked God for his mother to be baptized.

    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #33 on: February 18, 2021, 04:01:26 PM »
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  • I didn't read everything in this thread.  However, no multiplication of non-Magisterial sources for BOD can overturn the infallible papal pronouncements which establish the necessity of the Sacrament of Baptism for salvation.  We are bound to give our assent to the literal meaning of dogmas.  Affirming the opposite meaning is forbidden.  If there are theologians or holy men and women or even a pope teaching privately (e.g. in a private letter to a specific person), these sources cannot be evidence against the literal meaning of an ex cathedra teaching.

    Offline Clemens Maria

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #34 on: February 18, 2021, 04:04:31 PM »
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  • Selfish interjection here:  While we're on the topic, can you all say a prayer for my mother's conversion, that she ask for baptism (probably from me) before her death?  Although she's still doing okay, she is 88 years old now.
    :pray:


    Offline Carissima

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #35 on: February 18, 2021, 04:06:52 PM »
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  • In most of these Saintly BOD/BOB anecdotal stories, it seems some critical details are left out ?  

    The stories are presented to make the BOD/BOB points but, there always seems to be unanswered questions surrounding the events.

    Rosalie Cohen received the miraculous grace of the Faith.
    She acknowledges Our Lord, then kneels down at His feet and dies.

    But if she did receive the grace of the Faith, it would seem her first emotions should be sorrow for her sins and an immєdιαte desire for Baptism?

    Not just, “Oh, I get it now!”

    In fact, if we are to believe this story, Rosalie needed to make that her dying words... “Baptism Oh Lord!”
    Yes, it would seem that entrance into The Church is conveniently missing from these stories. 
    So according to the believers of these stories, a Jew or Muslim or other would not need to become a member of the Catholic Church upon their death, they would only need to have ‘Faith in Jesus’. This sounds distinctly Protestant, no?

    Offline Carissima

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #36 on: February 18, 2021, 04:08:05 PM »
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  • Selfish interjection here:  While we're on the topic, can you all say a prayer for my mother's conversion, that she ask for baptism (probably from me) before her death?  Although she's still doing okay, she is 88 years old now.
    Absolutely! :pray:

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #37 on: February 18, 2021, 04:19:00 PM »
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  • Selfish interjection here:  While we're on the topic, can you all say a prayer for my mother's conversion, that she ask for baptism (probably from me) before her death?  Although she's still doing okay, she is 88 years old now.
     
    Of course.


    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #38 on: February 18, 2021, 04:43:05 PM »
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  • Thank you. 

    Offline jerm

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #39 on: February 18, 2021, 04:54:46 PM »
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  • I believe I've been disabled from making posts, so I'm gonna hijack this thread too (admittedly for a far less important purpose than 2Vermont's) to ask a question: who are some saints who can help you get out of despondency? 

    St. Jean Vianney and Padre Pio both being mentioned in this thread reminded me of this, since they're both priests who were joyful and light, as well as profoundly lovable men who gave simple advice and who have helped millions. Plus, I figure it's more pleasant than another BoD thread where certain pro-BoDers passive aggressively attack everyone else. :P

    God Bless you all! And 2Vermont, your mother will be in my prayers too! 


    Offline jerm

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #40 on: February 18, 2021, 05:10:00 PM »
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  • I believe I've been disabled from making posts, so I'm gonna hijack this thread too (admittedly for a far less important purpose than 2Vermont's) to ask a question: who are some saints who can help you get out of despondency?

    St. Jean Vianney and Padre Pio both being mentioned in this thread reminded me of this, since they're both priests who were joyful and light, as well as profoundly lovable men who gave simple advice and who have helped millions. Plus, I figure it's more pleasant than another BoD thread where certain pro-BoDers passive aggressively attack everyone else. :P

    God Bless you all! And 2Vermont, your mother will be in my prayers too!
    It turns out that General Discussion was just closed, and I can make a new topic elsewhere- my mistake! I'll still leave this question here though. 


    Offline donkath

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #41 on: February 18, 2021, 07:05:25 PM »
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  • Last Tradhican asks for third time:
    I didn’t ask you what you agree with, I asked you : all I need to know is just if you reject these examples of salvation by implicit faith below , very simple, yes or no?

     
     Do you reject these examples of salvation by implicit faith, the teaching that non-Catholics can be saved by their belief in a god that rewards?
    :
     
     From the book  Against the Heresies, by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre:
     
     1. Page 216: “Evidently, certain distinctions must be made.  Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.), but not by this religion.  There may be souls who, not knowing Our Lord, have by the grace of the good Lord, good interior dispositions, who submit to God...But some of these persons make an act of love which implicitly is equivalent to baptism of desire.  It is uniquely by this means that they are able to be saved.”
     
     2.Page 217: “One cannot say, then, that no one is saved in these religions…”
     
     Pages 217-218: “This is then what Pius IX said and what he condemned.  It is necessary to understand the formulation that was so often employed by the Fathers of the Church:  ‘Outside the Church there is no salvation.’  When we say that, it is incorrectly believed that we think that all the Protestants, all the Moslems, all the Buddhists, all those who do not publicly belong to the Catholic Church go to hell.  Now, I repeat, it is possible for someone to be saved in these religions, but they are saved by the Church, and so the formulation is true: Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.  This must be preached.”
     
     Bishop Bernard Fellay, Conference in Denver, Co., Feb. 18, 2006: “We know that there are two other baptisms, that of desire and that of blood. These produce an invisible but real link with Christ but do not produce all of the effects which are received in the baptism of water… And the Church has always taught that you have people who will be in heaven, who are in the state of grace, who have been saved without knowing the Catholic Church. We know this. And yet
    It would be good if Xavier ould simply answer the question posed by how is it possible if you cannot be saved outside the Church? It is absolutely true that they will be saved through the Catholic Church because they will be united to Christ, to the Mystical Body of Christ, which is the Catholic Church. It will, however, remain invisible, because this visible link is impossible for them. Consider a Hindu in Tibet who has no knowledge of the Catholic Church. He lives according to his conscience and to the laws which God has put into his heart. He can be in the state of grace, and if he dies in this state of grace, he will go to heaven.” (The Angelus, “A Talk Heard Round the World,” April, 2006, p. 5.)

    It would be good if Xaviersem would simply answer the questions posed above.   There is no shame is saying what you believe.
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."

    Offline Emile

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #42 on: February 18, 2021, 07:50:12 PM »
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  • I believe I've been disabled from making posts, so I'm gonna hijack this thread too (admittedly for a far less important purpose than 2Vermont's) to ask a question: who are some saints who can help you get out of despondency?

    St. Jean Vianney and Padre Pio both being mentioned in this thread reminded me of this, since they're both priests who were joyful and light, as well as profoundly lovable men who gave simple advice and who have helped millions. Plus, I figure it's more pleasant than another BoD thread where certain pro-BoDers passive aggressively attack everyone else. :P

    God Bless you all! And 2Vermont, your mother will be in my prayers too!
    St. Ephraem

        O Lord and Master of my life, take from me a spirit of despondency, sloth, love of money, and idle talk.

        But give to me, your servant, a spirit of sober-mindedness, humility, patience, and love.

        Yes, O Lord and King, grant me to see my own sins and not to judge my brother, since you are blessed       to the ages. Amen.

    https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05498a.htm
    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #43 on: February 18, 2021, 08:08:39 PM »
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  • It would be good if Xaviersem would simply answer the questions posed above.   There is no shame is saying what you believe.

    I would actually gain a modicuм of respect for him were he to say that he disagrees with +Lefebvre and +Fellay on this point.  I respect Bishop Williamson greatly, as I do +Lefebvre, but they are not gods and I disagree with them on some things.  Perhaps the Archbishop would have been better served had he not been surrounded by butt-kissing sycophants during the last decades of his life.  “Your Grace, I respect you but on this point I think you’re gravely mistaken.  Here’s why ...”. To this day we have people upholding +Lefebvre as some rule of faith ... while ironically rejecting what they consider to be the Magisterium ... and fighting over who can claim him as their own.  Out of charity toward him, we can help offset the damage he did with this terrible quote by calling it out as error.

    Offline donkath

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    Re: St. John Vianney: Fr. Herman Cohen's Mother was Saved by Baptism of Desire!
    « Reply #44 on: February 18, 2021, 08:47:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: donkath on Today at 07:05:25 PM
    Quote
    It would be good if Xaviersem would simply answer the questions posed above.   There is no shame is saying what you believe.

    Quote
    Ladislaus...
    I would actually gain a modicuм of respect for him were he to say that he disagrees with +Lefebvre and +Fellay on this point...

    Well Xaviersem?
    "In His wisdom," says St. Gregory, "almighty God preferred rather to bring good out of evil than never allow evil to occur."