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Author Topic: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water  (Read 2489 times)

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Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2026, 05:13:31 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 25, 2026, 02:00:43 PM
St Alphonsus said that BOD can grant justification but that the person would still have temporal punishment due to sins remain.  This is contrary to Trent. 

St Alphonsus is not infallible.  Trent is.
There is no contradiction between these two teachings.
Only in your crazy autistic heads.
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2026, 10:12:06 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on May 25, 2026, 03:18:47 PM
God, being Justice itself, cannot send someone to hell because they didn't have access to sacraments through no fault of their own.
Absolutely disagree.  There is no doctrine that says this, nor has any saint postulated this.  

God DESIRES the salvation of all.  And He does not cast pearls before swine.  Those who reject the natural law by sin, damn themselves.  God will not waste the OFFER of sacraments to those hardened in sin.  To some sinful people, He offers religion, because only He can read hearts and He knows who will convert.  But to the many sinful people, He does not offer sacraments because they are swine.  God does not waste grace. 
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Offline Lazarus

Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #22 on: Yesterday at 11:04:36 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 25, 2026, 10:12:06 PM
Absolutely disagree.  There is no doctrine that says this, nor has any saint postulated this. 

God DESIRES the salvation of all.  And He does not cast pearls before swine.  Those who reject the natural law by sin, damn themselves.  God will not waste the OFFER of sacraments to those hardened in sin.  To some sinful people, He offers religion, because only He can read hearts and He knows who will convert.  But to the many sinful people, He does not offer sacraments because they are swine.  God does not waste grace.
Before Christopher Colombus set foot in the Americas, did every single Amerindian automatically go to hell because no one could baptize them?

That doesn't seem reasonable to me. 
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Offline Godefroy

Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #23 on: Yesterday at 11:30:51 AM »
Quote from: Lazarus on Yesterday at 11:04:36 AM
Before Christopher Colombus set foot in the Americas, did every single Amerindian automatically go to hell because no one could baptize them?

That doesn't seem reasonable to me.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me. 
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Offline Lazarus

Re: St. John Chrysostom on the Necessity of Water
« Reply #24 on: Yesterday at 12:54:39 PM »
Quote from: Godefroy on Yesterday at 11:30:51 AM
Seems perfectly reasonable to me.
Isn't that a form of protestant predestination though?

You're basically saying that anyone born outside the reach of missionaries is predestined to hell. 
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