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Proponents of BoD often cite Pope Innocent III (or II, depending on which attribution you believe) as stating that the opinions of the Fathers must be followed on this subject.

Proponents of BoD then promote St. Augustine's authority as proving Baptism of Desire.

But St. Augustine taught that God will not allow any of His elect to die without the Sacrament of Baptism.

Do you agree with St. Augustine on this point?

It's hypocritical to promote his authority when early in his life he opined in favor of Baptism of Desire but then reject it with regard to this later opinion, is it not?

It's similar to how people cite St. Thomas in favor of BoD but then reject the teaching of the very same St. Thomas when he holds that explicit belief and the Incarnation and Holy Trinity are necessary for salvation.

This hypocrisy generally exposes the BoDers who are of bad will on this issue.  They puff up the authorities which agree with their position, but then feel free to ignore those same authorities where they do not agree with them.  They try to beat their opponents over the head with the "authority" of St. Thomas but then ignore this same authority when it doesn't suit them.

When you see that kind of behavior, know that you are not dealing with someone who is intellectually honest, but someone who is applying confirmation bias to all the evidence based on what they want to believe.

LastTrad, while of course I agree with you, let's try to keep these threads on topic.

We're discussing the teaching of St. Augustine that God will not allow anyone to persevere to the end of life in a state of justification without providing the Sacrament of Baptism.

Here the BoDer hypocrisy being exposed is in holding that we must follow St. Augustine on BoD but then rejecting his teaching that God will infallibly provide the Sacrament to all of His elect.

My questions on this subject: (1) Can anyone find a post Innocent III Theology Manual that says BOD is still an open question? (2) Can anyone find a Church Doctor in the last millenium who says St. Augustine's opinion on BOD is still valid/has not been ruled against? It would be good if we could find such a source, we could all gain greater clarity.

Now, regarding the Papal endorsement of St. Augustine's opinion in the period when he taught BOD, it can be argued that the Pope may not necessarily have agreed with everything St. Augustine said, but approved a particular opinion within his writings. By way of analogy, when the Popes approved St. Athanasius' Creed, they didn't approve everything he ever wrote, however orthodox all those writings may be. They did endorse that particular Creed he composed, especially at Florence.

So I would see it as the same here. Like Pope Eugene IV approved the Athanasian Creed, but not every writing of St. Athanasius, so imo, maybe the Pope approved only those two particular quotations that he made, not everything else in St. Augustine or St. Ambrose: ""We assert without hesitation (on the authority of the holy Fathers Augustine and Ambrose) that the 'priest' whom you indicated (in your letter) had died without the water of baptism, because he persevered in the Faith of Holy Mother Church and in the confession of the name of Christ, was freed from original sin and attained the joys of the heavenly fatherland. Read [brother] in the eighth book of Augustine's City of God where among other things it is written: 'Baptism is administered invisibly to one whom not contempt of religion, but death excludes.' Read again the book also of the blessed Ambrose concerning the death of Valentinian where he says the same thing. Therefore, to questions concerning the dead, you should hold the opinions of the learned Fathers, and in your church you should join in prayers and you should have sacrifices offered to God for the 'priest' mentioned."

Now, personally I feel even the above statement quoted from St. Augustine does not absolutely exclude a miraculous Water Baptism. If someone wants to believe in Miraculous (Invisible) Water Baptism (MWB) theory, he can.

But I would appreciate seeing a source, from a Doctor after the Church issued this, or a theology manual post Trent, that says the question is still open to dispute, further clarification being required from the Magisterium etc.

Edit: Another thing comes to mind. St. Augustine once taught little infants will suffer the fire of hell. Obviously the Church did not endorse that opinion. Also, in the Middle Ages, that opinion was ruled against - I forgot by which Pope. But some Pope said the only pain infants suffer, following St. Thomas was the privation of the vision of God, what we now call Limbo. I'll look that up later. But the analogy here is clear. A Catholic must show (1) St. Augustine taught something AND (2) the Church still authorizes it to be taught/did not ever rule against it.

God Bless.