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Author Topic: St Alphonsus contradicts Trent  (Read 16121 times)

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Offline trad123

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Re: St Alphonsus contradicts Trent
« Reply #65 on: June 14, 2023, 02:47:55 PM »
https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/st-alphonsus-contradicts-trent/msg888498/#msg888498



Quote
never be it said that a man predestined to life would be permitted to end his life without the sacrament of the Mediator.



Likewise, I dare say, never be it said that a man predestined to life would be permitted to end his life without embracing the Catholic faith.

We either believe in the Athanasian Creed, or we don't, there is no inbetween.

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: St Alphonsus contradicts Trent
« Reply #66 on: June 14, 2023, 03:44:40 PM »
Quote from: SPelli on June 14, 2023, 02:02:08 PM

The effects of BOD suffice for salvation, but they do not suffice for the remission of temporal sin.  The sacrament of baptism, on the other hand, does have the effect of remitting temporal punishment. 

Blah blah blah.  You just keep repeating the same nonsense over and over again as if that makes it true.

Refute the post above where the Council of Trent makes it clear that there's no such thing as initial justification without the complete remission of the temporal punishment due to sin ... despite your butchered term "temporal sin".
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: St Alphonsus contradicts Trent
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2023, 03:44:57 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 14, 2023, 01:27:58 PM
Thanks for finding the quotes, trad123.  Here, to put them together more concisely:
MAJOR:  Initial Justification (vs. restored justification as in Confession) requires rebirth.
MINOR:  Rebirth removes all condemnation so that there is nothing whatever to retard their entrance into heaven.
CONCLUSION:  Initial justification puts men into a state where nothing whatever remains that could retard (slow down) their entrance into Heaven.

Both the MAJOR and MINOR are taught by Trent, as in the passages above (provided by trad123).

There's no way around this.  If BoD can provide this initial justification, it must also remove any temporal punishment due to sin (as that would retard their entrance into heaven).

This is further confirmed by the previously-cited passage from Innocent III where he asserts that those who are justified by faith in the Sacrament would enter heaven "without delay".
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