Author Topic: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written (Read 9886 times)

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 08, 2019, 03:03:50 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus on August 08, 2019, 01:48:15 PM

That's because there are two different types of necessity involved. Only Baptism is necessary by necessity of means for salvation. Holy Communion is not. I'll try to look up the theological passages on this subject later.

Contextually, we were discussing the view that all who claim to be Protestants are damned. So it wasn't about baptism of desire per se there. I forget exactly how we got there, because I'm in all three of the discussions on this issue that are going on at the moment.

confederate catholic · « **Reply #21 on:** August 08, 2019, 06:46:24 PM »

Byzcat, to be clear Feenyism denies baptism of blood and desire

Some here deny any baptism of desire only

Some hold that there is limited baptism of desire (for example they believe that if you are of good will and desire to join the Church you are in the same state as a catechumen ) trying to follow the doctrine of the Church which says that it is possible to obtain the state of sanctifying grace before the reception of the sacraments (like for example how a perfect act of contrition justifies before confession). Which is borne out in scripture (Peter referring to the saved outside the ark, and the paralytic who was told his sins were forgiven by Christ without either faith or contrition, as well as St. Emerentiana and countless martyrs saved without water baptism and prayed to in countless liturgies)

ByzCat3000 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 08, 2019, 06:53:58 PM »

Quote from: confederate catholic on August 08, 2019, 06:46:24 PM

Byzcat, to be clear Feenyism denies baptism of blood and desire

Some here deny any baptism of desire only

Some hold that there is limited baptism of desire (for example they believe that if you are of good will and desire to join the Church you are in the same state as a catechumen ) trying to follow the doctrine of the Church which says that it is possible to obtain the state of sanctifying grace before the reception of the sacraments (like for example how a perfect act of contrition justifies before confession). Which is borne out in scripture (Peter referring to the saved outside the ark, and the paralytic who was told his sins were forgiven by Christ without either faith or contrition, as well as St. Emerentiana and countless martyrs saved without water baptism and prayed to in countless liturgies)

It seems like the logic behind denying baptism of desire and baptism of blood would be similar, right?

I honestly see zero issue with what +Lefebvre said about this issue, its kinda weird/surprising to me that most people here are taking a line that's stricter than what Lefebvre did, just 'cause of what this forum is, not 'cause Lefebvre is automatically right.

confederate catholic · « **Reply #23 on:** August 08, 2019, 07:04:46 PM »

Also you asked about the three sacraments of initiation (this is the eastern view) but as Ladislas pointed out the view is different in the west. You probably need to know the three positions to see where you fit before wading into the sea of argument
:cheers:

confederate catholic · « **Reply #24 on:** August 08, 2019, 07:06:14 PM »

Yes essentially Feenyites are Dogmatic about it. Also remember that according to definition original sins guilt is being born without sanctifying grace which is obtained in more than 1 way

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Author Topic: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written (Read 9886 times)

ByzCat3000

Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written

confederate catholic

Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written

ByzCat3000

Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written

confederate catholic

Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written

confederate catholic

Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written