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Author Topic: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written  (Read 9885 times)

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Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2019, 07:36:44 AM »
Did you mean to post the following?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102043.htm


Chapter 1
1. The Apostle Paul has said: A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted and sins, being condemned of himself. Titus 3:10-11 But though the doctrine which men hold be false and perverse, if they do not maintain it with passionate obstinacy, especially when they have not devised it by the rashness of their own presumption, but have accepted it from parents who had been misguided and had fallen into error, and if they are with anxiety seeking the truth, and are prepared to be set right when they have found it, such men are not to be counted heretics. Were it not that I believe you to be such, perhaps I would not write to you. And yet even in the case of a heretic, however puffed up with odious conceit, and insane through the obstinacy of his wicked resistance to truth, although we warn others to avoid him, so that he may not deceive the weak and inexperienced, we do not refuse to strive by every means in our power for his correction. On this ground I wrote even to some of the chief of the Donatists, not indeed letters of communion, which on account of their perversity they have long ceased to receive from the undivided Catholic Church which is spread throughout the world, but letters of a private kind, such as we may send even to pagans. These letters, however, though they have sometimes read them, they have not been willing, or perhaps it is more probable, have not been able, to answer. In these cases, it seems to me that I have discharged the obligation laid on me by that love which the Holy Spirit teaches us to render, not only to our own, but to all, saying by the apostle: The Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men. 1 Thessalonians 3:12 In another place we are warned that those who are of a different opinion from us must be corrected with meekness, if God perhaps will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth, and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Timothy 2:25-26
2. I have said these things by way of preface, lest any one should think, because you are not of our communion, that I have been influenced by forwardness rather than consideration in sending this letter, and in desiring thus to confer with you regarding the welfare of the soul; though I believe that, if I were writing to you about an affair of property, or the settlement of some dispute about money, no one would find fault with me. So precious is this world in the esteem of men, and so small is the value which they set upon themselves! This letter, therefore, shall be a witness in my vindication at the bar of God, who knows the spirit in which I write, and who has said: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God. Matthew 5:9

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2019, 08:24:34 AM »
Quote
I don't think Florence is ruling out the possibility that you could have a confused man who visibly identifies as Protestant, who's actually of good faith and is actually Catholic.  
You cannot be a protestant and a catholic at the same time.  Either you believe that Christ gives us His body and blood in the Eucharist, which is necessary for salvation, or you do not.  Either you believe that you must submit to the Church and the pope to be saved, or you do not.  Either you believe that Our Lady was born spotless from sin, and remained so for Her entire life, and was Assumed into Heaven as Queen, or you do not.
.
A confused protestant may not be guilty of heresy (for a time) but they are not a catholic, since they identify with heresy.  Confusion, like ignorance, is a punishment for sin.  If that person has good will and strives for natural goodness, God will remove his confusion and send him the truths of the Faith.  I say that the protestant is not guilty "for a time" because if he stays in his confusion and does not seek truth, he is guilty of spiritual sloth and God will not bless him with the truths which he lazily did not seek.  We cannot say, per Church doctrine, that a confused protestant can be saved.  We can only say that this person, IF HE BECOMES A CATHOLIC, and rejects his protestant errors, can be saved.


Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2019, 11:26:56 AM »
Did you mean to post the following?

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/1102043.htm


Chapter 1
1. The Apostle Paul has said: A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject, knowing that he that is such is subverted and sins, being condemned of himself. Titus 3:10-11 But though the doctrine which men hold be false and perverse, if they do not maintain it with passionate obstinacy, especially when they have not devised it by the rashness of their own presumption, but have accepted it from parents who had been misguided and had fallen into error, and if they are with anxiety seeking the truth, and are prepared to be set right when they have found it, such men are not to be counted heretics. Were it not that I believe you to be such, perhaps I would not write to you. And yet even in the case of a heretic, however puffed up with odious conceit, and insane through the obstinacy of his wicked resistance to truth, although we warn others to avoid him, so that he may not deceive the weak and inexperienced, we do not refuse to strive by every means in our power for his correction. On this ground I wrote even to some of the chief of the Donatists, not indeed letters of communion, which on account of their perversity they have long ceased to receive from the undivided Catholic Church which is spread throughout the world, but letters of a private kind, such as we may send even to pagans. These letters, however, though they have sometimes read them, they have not been willing, or perhaps it is more probable, have not been able, to answer. In these cases, it seems to me that I have discharged the obligation laid on me by that love which the Holy Spirit teaches us to render, not only to our own, but to all, saying by the apostle: The Lord make you to increase and abound in love one toward another, and toward all men. 1 Thessalonians 3:12 In another place we are warned that those who are of a different opinion from us must be corrected with meekness, if God perhaps will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth, and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Timothy 2:25-26
2. I have said these things by way of preface, lest any one should think, because you are not of our communion, that I have been influenced by forwardness rather than consideration in sending this letter, and in desiring thus to confer with you regarding the welfare of the soul; though I believe that, if I were writing to you about an affair of property, or the settlement of some dispute about money, no one would find fault with me. So precious is this world in the esteem of men, and so small is the value which they set upon themselves! This letter, therefore, shall be a witness in my vindication at the bar of God, who knows the spirit in which I write, and who has said: Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the sons of God. Matthew 5:9
Yes, that's right. Thank you.

Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2019, 11:27:50 AM »
You cannot be a protestant and a catholic at the same time.  Either you believe that Christ gives us His body and blood in the Eucharist, which is necessary for salvation, or you do not.  Either you believe that you must submit to the Church and the pope to be saved, or you do not.  Either you believe that Our Lady was born spotless from sin, and remained so for Her entire life, and was Assumed into Heaven as Queen, or you do not.
.
A confused protestant may not be guilty of heresy (for a time) but they are not a catholic, since they identify with heresy.  Confusion, like ignorance, is a punishment for sin.  If that person has good will and strives for natural goodness, God will remove his confusion and send him the truths of the Faith.  I say that the protestant is not guilty "for a time" because if he stays in his confusion and does not seek truth, he is guilty of spiritual sloth and God will not bless him with the truths which he lazily did not seek.  We cannot say, per Church doctrine, that a confused protestant can be saved.  We can only say that this person, IF HE BECOMES A CATHOLIC, and rejects his protestant errors, can be saved.
I was purposely precise.  "visibly identified as Protestant."  He thinks he's Protestant.

Obstinately denying any of the above is damnable.  Since we can't know for sure that someone is in good faith, we should pray for the salvation of all Protestants, and assume that they are not safe where they are.  Anything else would be irresponsible. 

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Sede Fr. Cekada Refuses to believe EENS Dogmas as they are Written
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2019, 12:04:30 PM »
Quote
Obstinately denying any of the above is damnable.  Since we can't know for sure that someone is in good faith, we should pray for the salvation of all Protestants, and assume that they are not safe where they are.
One who identifies as Protestant denies the above doctrines, by definition.  They cannot be saved as a Protestant, no matter their good will.  How do you define "good will" anyway?  They can only be saved if they ACTIVELY reject their heresies, their protestant religion and become catholic.  Salvation is not in the mind.  Being a catholic is not a mental state.  Christ told us to (actively) do good and avoid evil.  We must EAT His Flesh and DRINK His blood to be saved; we cannot just believe.  To become a catholic is to act to join the Faith.  "Good will" is a mental first step, but it requires the fulfillment of the desire for Truth.  "Good will" does not supply the sacraments; it does not supply membership in the Church; it cannot supply heaven.