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Author Topic: Saying RIP in regards to non-Catholics  (Read 1794 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Saying RIP in regards to non-Catholics
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2021, 07:09:00 PM »
Here's just some of it:

Quote
Father Feeney became famous for his public stand for the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No Salvation in the 1940’s and 1950’s.  Most people fail to realize that, at that time, the world’s bishops were by no means staunch traditionalists.  Most of the world’s bishops had already embraced the heresy of indifferentism, which explains why almost all of them signed the heretical Vatican II docuмents just a short time later.  They had embraced the heretical idea that “invincible ignorance” saves those who die as non-Catholics, as I’ve discussed in certain previous sections.  This is why one can easily detect heresy against the dogma in most theology manuals and texts beginning as early as the late 19th century.  In fact, during his time, Father Feeney wrote to all of the bishops of the world about the dogma Outside the Church There is No Salvation and received only three positive responses.  In other words, only three of the world’s bishops at that time manifested a positive belief in the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No salvation as it had been defined.  It is no wonder that Vatican II went through with virtually no resistance from the Episcopate.

Father Feeney believed and preached the dogma – as it had been defined – publicly in Boston.  He believed and preached that unless a man embraces the Catholic Faith – whether he be a Jew, Muslim, Protestant or agnostic – he will perish forever in Hell.  Many converted, and many were angry.  He had not a few enemies, especially among the increasingly modernist, politically correct and compromised clergy.

One of his main enemies was the Archbishop of Boston, Richard Cushing, a B’nai Brith (Jєωιѕн Freemasons) man of the year, and someone who called the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No Salvation “nonsense.”  In April of 1949, Cushing silenced Fr. Feeney and interdicted St. Benedict Center (the apostolate affiliated with Fr. Feeney).  The reason given by Cushing was “disobedience,” but the real reason was Father Feeney’s public stand for the dogma Outside the Catholic Church There is No Salvation.  It was not due to Father Feeney’s stand against the theory of baptism of desire either, since this wasn’t first published until 1952.  Cushing’s dissatisfaction with Fr. Feeney was strictly based on Father Feeney’s stand for the defined dogma that only Catholics – and those who become Catholics – can be saved.

Cushing had allies with other heretical clergymen in Boston, the area where the controversy erupted.  Father John Ryan, S.J., head of the Adult Education Institute of Boston College, stated in the fall of 1947: “I do not agree with Father Feeney’s doctrine on salvation outside the Church.”[dxliv]  Father Stephen A. Mulcahy, S.J., Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences of Boston College, termed it: “Father Feeney’s doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Church.”[dxlv]  And Father J.J. McEleney, S.J., Provincial of the New England Province of the Society of Jesus, told Father Feeney in a personal meeting, that he was being ordered to transfer to Holy Cross College because of “Your doctrine.”[dxlvi]  Father Feeney quickly responded, “My doctrine on what?”  To which Fr. McEleney replied, “I’m sorry, we can’t go into that.”

Right from the start, these fallen clergymen fused the issue with Father Feeney rather than the real source from which it came.  This enabled them to focus on Father Feeney, and ignore Jesus Christ, whose doctrine this was.

Pope Pius IX, Nostis et Nobiscuм (# 10), Dec. 8, 1849: “In particular, ensure that the faithful are deeply and thoroughly convinced of the truth of the doctrine that the Catholic faith is necessary for attaining salvation. (This doctrine, received from Christ and emphasized by the Fathers and Councils, is also contained in the formulae of the profession of faith used by Latin, Greek and Oriental Catholics).”[dxlvii]

These heretics failed to realize that to belittle a defined dogma to something of Father Feeney’s invention is blasphemous and severely dishonest.  But God is not mocked.  We see the same thing today, especially rampant among so-called traditionalists.  But I will return to this point.

On December 2, 1948, the President of Boston College, Father William L. Keleher, S.J., held an interview with Dr. Maluf, who was an ally of Father Feeney in the stand for the dogma.  Fr. Keleher stated:  “Father Feeney came to me at the beginning of this situation and I would have liked to do something except that I could not agree with his doctrine on salvation… He (Fr. Feeney) kept repeating such phrases as ‘There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church.’”[dxlviii] 


Re: Saying RIP in regards to non-Catholics
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2021, 07:11:08 PM »
When I say requiescat in pace, it is implicit that I am praying they somehow came into the One True Catholic Church before their soul left their body.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Saying RIP in regards to non-Catholics
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2021, 07:20:24 PM »
When I say requiescat in pace, it is implicit that I am praying they somehow came into the One True Catholic Church before their soul left their body.

Even if that is someone's intention, I believe it a mistake to say that phrase publicly.  So, for instance, if when Rush Limbaugh died, we would post RIP, the impression is one believes that there's a real possibility (even likelihood) that the person is saved ... which would be scandalous.  Nobody reads into the phrase the intent that you describe above, so it could be an occasion for scandal to say it without explicitly adding the qualification you stipulate.  And, if you're unwilling to explicitly state your mind as above, then it's likely that you're intentionally leaving the meaning ambiguous, so it could be taken in an orthodox sense by Catholics and interpreted by others in their religious indifferentist sense by non-Catholics.

Re: Saying RIP in regards to non-Catholics
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2021, 08:28:02 PM »
Even if that is someone's intention, I believe it a mistake to say that phrase publicly.  So, for instance, if when Rush Limbaugh died, we would post RIP, the impression is one believes that there's a real possibility (even likelihood) that the person is saved ... which would be scandalous.  Nobody reads into the phrase the intent that you describe above, so it could be an occasion for scandal to say it without explicitly adding the qualification you stipulate.  And, if you're unwilling to explicitly state your mind as above, then it's likely that you're intentionally leaving the meaning ambiguous, so it could be taken in an orthodox sense by Catholics and interpreted by others in their religious indifferentist sense by non-Catholics.
I don't think it's ever a bad thing to say these words.  When one says "may he rest in peace", the very construction of that phrase indicates that our prayer is needed --- and it is indeed a prayer, I'm saying it to Almighty God, not to my neighbor --- and that there is the possibility that they are not "resting in peace".  If they're in heaven, they don't need that prayer.  If their salvation was in jeopardy, or if they are serving a long sojourn in purgatory, then that prayer most certainly is needed.  (It's just a coincidence that the abbreviation RIP stands for the same thing in Latin and English, though nobody outside of Catholic and Latinist circles comprehends this.  And, granted, "rest in peace" is not the same thing as "may he rest in peace".)

The phrase that I really dislike is "they're in a better place now".  I just keep silence when someone says that --- I never, ever say it myself, in that I am not a Pope and I cannot canonize anyone.  I want to say "let's hope so", but then that would introduce an element of doubt, and in that moderns are all basically Unitarian Universalists when it comes to questions of salvation and immediate entry into heaven, it could provoke verbally violent reactions.  I normally just tell people, usually non-Catholics (I actually do not talk to that many Catholics, I live in an overwhelming Protestant part of the country, and to tell you the truth, I really don't want to talk to post-Vatican II "Newchurch" Catholics in the first place!), that I'm an "old-fashioned", "old-school", "traditional" Catholic, then I give some kind of litany about "you know, rosary, scapular, Latin Mass, fish on Friday, and so on".  If they want to know further what I believe, they can look it up.  I do comment, as appropriate, that "we're quite a bit more conservative than the parish church (or school) down the road".  If there is a way to get and keep their attention and interest beyond that, I'd like to know about it.  At some point I just have to let go and let the Holy Ghost take over.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Saying RIP in regards to non-Catholics
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2021, 08:36:26 PM »
I don't think it's ever a bad thing to say these words.  When one says "may he rest in peace", the very construction of that phrase indicates that our prayer is needed --- and it is indeed a prayer, I'm saying it to Almighty God, not to my neighbor --- and that there is the possibility that they are not "resting in peace".  If they're in heaven, they don't need that prayer.  If their salvation was in jeopardy, or if they are serving a long sojourn in purgatory, then that prayer.

I disagree.  Prayers for the repose of a soul presume and clearly imply a hope for the person's salvation, but the person is presumed lost if having died outside the Church or in public sin.

To say "Rest in Peace" for a Rush Limbaugh, who finished his life with "wife" #4, implies that there's hope for the salvation of someone who lived in sin his entire life.  To say that about any non-Catholic implies that there's hope for salvation for those outside the Church.

Their salvation is not merely "in jeopardy" but, rather, presumed not to have taken place.

Prayers are useless for someone who was lost, and such as die outside the Church or in public sin, are presumed lost.  To suggest otherwise is to cause the scandal of suggesting that salvation is possible for someone in those situations.  Coming from a Catholic, furthermore, it suggests that Catholics and the Catholic Church belief that salvation is possible for such a one.