Author Topic: Salvific Will, Predestination, EENS (Read 16685 times)

trad123 · « **Reply #25 on:** September 09, 2010, 12:02:53 AM »

Ah, I quickly missed the second quote.

But, also let me add a sentence from the same article:

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Will the majority of the human race be saved or will they be damned?

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The truth is that neither the one nor the other can be proved from Scripture or Tradition

This is absurd, one merely has to look at how the Church fathers interpreted scripture and you'll have trouble finding one that says that the majority will be saved.

trad123 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 09, 2010, 12:12:54 AM »

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none of the predestined will die without baptism

That is absolutely true, no one who is in Heaven has died without receiving the effects of baptism.

trad123 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 09, 2010, 12:17:20 AM »

Technically speaking, there is no such thing as an "unbaptized saint".

Telesphorus · « **Reply #28 on:** September 09, 2010, 04:20:06 AM »

Quote from: DecemRationis

No, I do not place restraints on God. In fact, I said God "could" save everyone.

You mean in some other world without the teachings of the Church. What God could do irrespective of those teachings is irrelevant. So if you brought it up, either you were bringing up an irrelevancy, or you were trying to make your position seem more reasonable than it is, while reserving your true meaning for yourself.

You said:

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Sure, God is not limited by the Sacraments

Now for that statement to have any meaning, it must mean that someone can be saved without water baptism.

No, I don't like your position, and I don't think it's Catholic.

According to your view (it would seem) it's not possible for anyone to be saved without water baptism. This view makes an utter mockery of God's justice and exposes the Catholic religion to ridicule, and it is not based on the Church Tradition.

Matto · « **Reply #29 on:** September 09, 2010, 05:34:57 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

According to your view (it would seem) it's not possible for anyone to be saved without water baptism. This view makes an utter mockery of God's justice and exposes the Catholic religion to ridicule, and it is not based on the Church Tradition.

Although I do believe in BOD and BOB, it bothers me to hear someone say that the Feeneyite view "makes an utter mockery of God's justice" as if any fallen human could ever fully comprehend God's justice. Many people would say that a lot of truths, such as the fact that unbaptized babies are not saved, make an "utter mockery of God's justice" yet they are still true and perfectly just. The Feeneyites in turn could make the counter-claim that those who believe in BOD and BOB make an "utter mockery of God's providence".