Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Saints and Church Fathers on baptism of desire  (Read 17297 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Saints and Church Fathers on baptism of desire
« Reply #35 on: August 17, 2009, 06:33:41 AM »
Quote from: Catholic Martyr
And fine He was speaking to the Jews, but the point is that He was not making a universal statement concerning all men, but a specific one to those who He was addressing.


So, it was only meant for those men who actually heard him that very day?

Offline CM

Saints and Church Fathers on baptism of desire
« Reply #36 on: August 17, 2009, 06:40:39 AM »
Limitations of the internet, more like.

I'll tell you the same thing I told Caminus:

I have no training at all.  I have simply chosen to believe everything God says, and to understand it not according to what men say, but according to the very Words of God as defined by the Church.

Like I said, sophistry is an unjust charge, my answers about perfect contrition and the Eucharist are true.  Don't forget who the final interpreter of Sacred Scripture is; it is the Holy Catholic Church, in Her Solemn Magisterium.

Quote from: gladius veritatis
So, it was only meant for those men who actually heard him that very day?


Certainly not.  Hence the discipline of the Church, which ordains that the Eucharist be received by the Faithful at least once a year at Easter, as far as I am aware.

However, what do you think a person should do when the only priests around that can consecrate the Host are heretics?  Are you going to use this verse to justify going to heretics or schismatics for Communion?


Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Saints and Church Fathers on baptism of desire
« Reply #37 on: August 18, 2009, 02:20:45 AM »
Quote from: Catholic Martyr
However, what do you think a person should do when the only priests around that can consecrate the Host are heretics?  Are you going to use this verse to justify going to heretics or schismatics for Communion?


Are they formal heretics?  Have they been declared as such?  In danger of death, one may certainly approach them for the sacraments.

Ad Evitanda Scandala
Pope Martin V, 1418.

"To avoid scandals and many dangers and relieve timorous consciences by the tenor of these presents we mercifully grant to all Christ's faithful that henceforth no one henceforth shall be bound to abstain from communion with anyone in the administration or reception of the sacraments or in any other religious or non-religious acts whatsoever, nor to avoid anyone nor to observe any ecclesiastical interdict, on pretext of any ecclesiastical sentence or censure globally promulgated whether by the law or by an individual; unless the sentence or censure in question has been specifically and expressly published or denounced by the judge on or against a definite person, college, university, church, community or place. Notwithstanding any apostolic or other constitutions to the contrary, save the case of someone of whom it shall be known so notoriously that he has incurred the sentence passed by the canon for laying sacrilegious hands upon a cleric that the fact cannot be concealed by any tergiversation nor excused by any legal defence. For we will abstinence from communion with such a one, in accordance with the canonical sanctions, even though he be not denounced." (Fontes I, 45.)

Since you hold practically the entire world as heretics, and seem to think such may never be approached, to whom can you go for the sacraments?

Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Saints and Church Fathers on baptism of desire
« Reply #38 on: August 18, 2009, 02:28:36 AM »

Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Saints and Church Fathers on baptism of desire
« Reply #39 on: August 18, 2009, 06:21:13 AM »
Quote from: Catholic Martyr
I have no training at all.


I thought not.  It shows, although I have seen far worse.  Do not get me wrong; training/formal schooling is NOT everything.

Quote
I have simply chosen to believe everything God says, and to understand it not according to what men say, but according to the very Words of God as defined by the Church.


Nothing wrong with that, except you seem to think your understanding of what the Church actually teaches is superior to luminaries like St Alphonsus.  Do you grasp the enormous error involved in such an attitude?  Would you imply that St Alphonsus "chose to believe men instead of God", rather than suppose you are the one who does not quite grasp these matters as well as he?

Quote
Like I said, sophistry is an unjust charge, my answers about perfect contrition and the Eucharist are true.


You butchered the story, unwittingly or not, to suit your own needs.  Yes, you admitted it when you were exposed, but can you see why I called you on it the way I did?  You are enthusiastic.  Concedo.  However, your have developed a habit, somewhere along the line, of speaking about matters that you do not quite grasp (something I imagine most of us do from time to time in this vale of tears).  I, and others, have noticed, called you on it, and you have, at times, shown a good disposition toward the correction.  Why not suppose you are also incorrect in hurling anathemas, canning truly holy geniuses like St Thomas, St Alphonsus, et alii, etc?