Author Topic: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video  (Read 2730 times)

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Offline John

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Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
« Reply #90 on: October 12, 2019, 08:30:03 PM »
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  • Sorry. That was meant for the LoudestLouse on Cathinfo..
    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #91 on: October 12, 2019, 09:16:57 PM »
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  • Bishop George Hay. No Salvation Outside of the Catholic Church (pp. 22-23)


    Quote
    Question 8.

    WHAT THEN IS TO BE SAID OF ALL THOSE MAHOMETANS, JEWS, AND HEATHENS, WHO, NEVER HAVING HEARD OF JESUS CHRIST OR OF HIS RELIGION, ARE THEREFORE INVINCIBLY IGNORANT OF BOTH? CAN THEY BE SAVED, IF THEY LIVE AND DIE IN THAT STATE?

    Answer.

    The plain answer to this is that they cannot be saved; that not one of these “can enter into the kingdom of God.” It is true, as we have seen above, they will not be condemned precisely because they have not the faith of Christ, of which they are invincibly ignorant. But the faith of Christ, though an essential condition of salvation, is but one condition; others also are required.


    And though invincible ignorance will certainly save a man from sin, in not knowing that of which he is invincibly ignorant, yet it is impossible to suppose that this invincible ignorance on one point will supply the want of all other conditions required.

    Now, all those we here speak of are in the state of Original Sin, “aliens from God, and children of wrath,” being unBaptized; and it is an article of Christian Faith, that, unless Original Sin be washed away by the grace of Baptism, there is no salvation; for Christ Himself expressly declares, “Amen, amen, I say to thee, except a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God,” [John 3: 5]. And, indeed, if even the children of Christian parents, who die without Baptism, cannot go to Heaven, how much less can those who, besides being unBaptized, live and die in ignorance of the true God, of Jesus Christ and His Faith, and, on that account, may be supposed to have also committed many actual sins.

    Nay, to imagine that heathens, Mahometans, or Jews who live and die in that state can be saved, is to suppose that ignorance will save worshipers of idols, of Mahomet, and blasphemers of Jesus Christ, in the guilt of actual as well as Original Sin; which is putting them upon a better footing than Christians themselves and their children. The fate of all such the Scripture decides as follows: “The Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven, with the Angel of His power, in a flame of fire, yielding vengeance to them who know not God, and who obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, who shall suffer eternal punishment in destruction, from the face of the Lord and from the glory of His power,” [2 Thess. 1: 7]. This is precise, indeed–a clear and decisive answer to the present question.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #92 on: October 12, 2019, 09:42:37 PM »
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  • 1582 A.D. Rheims New Testament

    https://archive.org/details/1610A.d.DouayOldTestament1582A.d.RheimsNewTestament_176/page/n2729


    Hebrew 11:6

    page 630:


    Quote
    But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that commeth to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.


    Annotations, Chapter 11

    page 632:

    https://archive.org/details/1610A.d.DouayOldTestament1582A.d.RheimsNewTestament_176/page/n2731

    Quote

    6. He that commeth. Faith is the foundation and ground of all other virtues, and worship of God, without which no man can please God. Therefore if one be a Jew, a heathen, or an heretic, that is to say, he be without the Catholic faith, all his works shall profit him no whit to salvation.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline John

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #93 on: October 12, 2019, 09:53:33 PM »
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  • Pope St. Pius X
      .  Baptism, Necessity of Baptism and Obligations of the Baptized: 17 Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way? A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire...


    TRAD123...Are you stating that Pope St.Pius X is teaching heresy here? How is he denying EENS? and if you think this is a heretical interpretation of "implicit", where is there a Church statement on the Church's definition of "implicit"?...
    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #94 on: October 12, 2019, 10:02:48 PM »
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  • http://www.catholictradition.org/Tradition/salvation2-4b.htm

    St. Peter Canisius


    Quote
    Outside this communion, as outside the Ark of Noah, there is absolutely no salvation for mortals: not for Jews or pagans who never received the faith of the Church; not for heretics who, having received it, forsook or corrupted it; not for schismatics who left the peace and unity of the Church; and finally, neither for excommunicated persons who for any other serious cause deserved to be put away and separated from the body of the Church like pernicious members. For the rule of Cyprian and Augustine is certain: that man will not have God for his Father who would not have the Church for his Mother.

    2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.


    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #95 on: October 12, 2019, 10:14:48 PM »
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  • Saint John Eudes

    Man's Contract with God in Baptism, pages 49 - 52


    https://archive.org/details/MansContractWithGodInBaptism/page/n45



    Quote
    That you may have a true faith in those things which God has revealed, it is necessary that you should believe in the Catholic Church, in which alone you can learn with certainty what God has revealed. For this reason, after you have been asked if you believe in God, you are also asked if you believe in the Catholic Church.

    Certainly those who do not believe in the Catholic Church cannot have divine faith in the mysteries which they believe, but only natural and human faith; a faith of their own fancy, founded on the light of their own judgment, subject to error, and not on the promises of Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church alone possesses these promises, and on her testimony alone rests the foundation of Christian faith. As she possesses the divine promises for all days, even to the end of ages, there can be no reason to doubt whatever she proposes to our belief.

    Thank God for having given you the precious gift of faith, and having made you a child of the holy Catholic Church, which is the faithful repository of the truths of salvation, and which all Christians are obliged to acknowledge as the true Church. In saying, “I believe in the holy Catholic Church’ you united yourself inseparably to this holy mother; you believe, without hesitation, all that she proposes, as proposed to you by Jesus Christ himself, who is ever with her in her instructions. Reject, then, with horror, everything at variance with her teachings, and regard it as an error calculated to endanger your faith.

    However ignorant you may be, you have the true faith if you believe, without exception, all the holy Catholic Church believes and teaches; on the other hand, however learned you may be, you lose the gift and the virtue of faith if you reject any doctrine which she teaches; for her faith is your rule. “As there is but one faith,” says St. Paul, “to wish to divide it, is to destroy it.” Heretics not only differ from the Church in faith, but they also differ amongst themselves, a proof that they have not the true faith, which is one. The holy Catholic Church never has suffered, and never will suffer, a difference of faith in regard to any article. Her faith is the same in all times, in all places, and in all her true children. Thus her faith is one and the only true faith. You should be most desirous to preserve the faith in all its purity, since without it, it is impossible to do anything which merits Heaven. “Without faith it is impossible to please God.” Those who do not possess it may practice all the moral virtues, justice, sobriety, chastity, alms-deeds, prayers, mortification; and not only is this the case with heretics, but it is a truth which should be borne in mind, that these good actions, unless they have faith for their principle, will never merit Heaven for them. The law of Moses, all holy as it was, could save only those who observed it through faith.

    When, therefore, you observe that those who believe not in the Church, practice some good works, offer many prayers, and lead an austere life, do not believe that they are on this account in the way of salvation, unless they have true faith; you commit an ENORMOUS SIN if you believe that they can be saved outside of the Church; that they can have faith without believing in her, or that they can be saved without faith.

    2 Corinthians 4:3-4

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #96 on: October 13, 2019, 04:30:45 AM »
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  • Pope St. Pius X
     .  Baptism, Necessity of Baptism and Obligations of the Baptized: 17 Q. Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way? A. The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire...


    TRAD123...Are you stating that Pope St.Pius X is teaching heresy here? How is he denying EENS? and if you think this is a heretical interpretation of "implicit", where is there a Church statement on the Church's definition of "implicit"?...
    False, Pius X never said that.

    Besides, you believe that Mohamedans, Hindus, Jews.... can be saved without baptism of blood, so why even discuss baptism of blood? 

    Typical subterfuge by false BODers, lies and hiding their true beliefs.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #97 on: October 13, 2019, 04:42:18 AM »
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  • Besides, you believe that Mohamedans, Hindus, Jews.... can be saved without baptism of blood, so why even discuss baptism of blood?
    LESSON: Do not ever waste your time discussing St. Thomas, St. Alphonsus Ligouri, or Baptism of blood with BODers before establishing whether they believe that a Mohamedan, Hindu, Jews..... can be saved by their belief in a God that rewards,  implicit faith, which is not implicit baptism of desire but implicit faith in Jesus Christ by their belief in a God that rewards. By their true belief in salvation by implicit faith, they reject the very quotes they bring up  by St. Thomas, St. Alphonsus Ligouri, or Baptism of blood. They are liars, do not waste your time discussing anything but their belief in salvation by belief in a God that rewards. (Unless you like to your waste time.)
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #98 on: October 13, 2019, 06:44:10 AM »
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  • Atheists can have implicit faith in a God that rewards, which amounts to implicit faith in the Christian God, which grants for implicit baptism of desire.

    But this does not contradict EENS becauae the atheist is both within and without the Church simultaneously. It's a mystery of faith, don't force me to defend my mumbo-jumbo with facts and logic.

    Oh and if you disagree then you're a heretic because a saint said a catechumen can be saved.

    Offline John

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #99 on: October 13, 2019, 07:59:47 AM »
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  • I, personally, would guess implicit BOD almost never happens, the odds are heavily against it happening EVER. Especially in the moral and spiritual condition the world is in !!

    "Souls are falling to hell like snow"... "out of 100,00 souls who die, 3 might be saved".. and these are Catholics! Catholics !

    But the Church TEACHES, that if that one person in a trillion, or a quadrillion, if you like, is in the state of Perfect contrition, loves God, and hates sin and has never committed a mortal sin in his entire life, that God knows this soul and definitely can, if He wants to, save that soul... without permission from you dunderheads..

    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #100 on: October 13, 2019, 08:26:17 AM »
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  • I, personally, would guess implicit BOD almost never happens, the odds are heavily against it happening EVER. Especially in the moral and spiritual condition the world is in !!

    "Souls are falling to hell like snow"... "out of 100,00 souls who die, 3 might be saved".. and these are Catholics! Catholics !

    But the Church TEACHES, that if that one person in a trillion, or a quadrillion, if you like, is in the state of Perfect contrition, loves God, and hates sin and has never committed a mortal sin in his entire life, that God knows this soul and definitely can, if He wants to, save that soul... without permission from you dunderheads..
    Perfect contrition requires supernatural faith.


    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #101 on: October 13, 2019, 07:37:03 PM »
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  • I, personally, would guess implicit BOD almost never happens, the odds are heavily against it happening EVER. …..you dunderheads..
    Before you can call people stupid on this subject, you need learn what you are talking about, implicit faith is not implicit BOD. 
    Fools rush in......
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #102 on: October 13, 2019, 07:42:11 PM »
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  • Quote
    Atheists can have implicit faith in a God that rewards, which amounts to implicit faith in the Christian God, which grants for implicit baptism of desire.

    But this does not contradict EENS becauae the atheist is both within and without the Church simultaneously. It's a mystery of faith, don't force me to defend my mumbo-jumbo with facts and logic.

    Oh and if you disagree then you're a heretic because a saint said a catechumen can be saved.
    I assume this is sarcasm?  Because this is totally anti-catholic!

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #103 on: October 13, 2019, 08:06:17 PM »
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  • It's rather comical that this Catholic debate, with detailed quote searches and the parsing of words and meanings exists.

    When at every Tridentine Sunday Low Mass, we profess one Baptism and then read the Last Gospel of St. John

    John 1: 1-14

    [1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. [4] In him was life, and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
    [6] There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. [7] This man came for a witness, to give testimony of the light, that all men might believe through him. [8] He was not the light, but was to give testimony of the light. [9] That was the true light, which enlighteneth every man that cometh into this world. [10] He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
    [11] He came unto his own, and his own received him not. [12] But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. [13] Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. [14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
    [John 1:1-14]


    The highlighted portions refute invincible ignorance, BOD and BOB.

    We have free wills to believe, seek and receive the Sacrament, which takes less than 15 seconds to administer, or to talk around it.

    Claims that the Sacrament can't be received denies God's omnipotence and beneficence.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #104 on: October 13, 2019, 10:47:57 PM »
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  • I assume this is sarcasm?  Because this is totally anti-catholic!
    He's obviously being sarcastic lol

     

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