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Author Topic: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video  (Read 10026 times)

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Offline John

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Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2019, 05:31:44 PM »
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    • Ladislaus and Tradhican...I know for a fact that you can't respond to the above quotes.. neither can your puppet masters fred and bob dimond. you'll just try to deflect with some nonsense, which is what the dimonds do when I write to them... and that's all you would be expected to do... just be aware of it.. is all i'm saying...but it's pretty funny that you are the ones who brought up St. Alphonsus Liguori and St. Thomas Aquinas... now you have to EAT YOUR WORDS...in front of everyone!!call the dimonds and ask them what to say...
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    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #16 on: October 05, 2019, 06:01:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 04, 2019, 04:42:51 AM
    I'm confused.  You'll not find anywhere in the world a more violent opposition to Baptism of Desire than from the Dimonds.  This video was not put out by the Dimonds; it's an attack against them.

    This video is absolutely repugnant, and the guy who posted it is undoubtedly a heretic on this matter.  This might be a new account created by "Lover of Truth" (aka Lover of Heresy).

    His Avatar of +Thuc suggests that it's yet another CMRI heretic.  You won't find more contempt for the EENS dogma anywhere else than in the CMRI.  These guys make it their crusade, their mission in life, to attack and undermine EENS.  In fact, the CMRI twice published a heretical article blasphemously entitled "The Salvation of those outside the Church" ... directly contradicting Catholic dogma in the very title.
    What sets the CMRI apart from anyone else here?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #17 on: October 05, 2019, 06:46:30 PM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on October 05, 2019, 06:01:45 PM
    What sets the CMRI apart from anyone else here?

    Because the CMRI posters are invariably the ones who make the promotion of BoD and undermining of EENS a veritable crusade.  They're obsessed with the issue and make it their life's work to promote BoD.  We've had several posters from CMRI who did nothing else but post spam against "Feeneyism" the entire time they were here.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #18 on: October 05, 2019, 06:52:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: John on October 05, 2019, 05:31:44 PM
    Ladislaus and Tradhican...I know for a fact that you can't respond to the above quotes.. neither can your puppet masters fred and bob dimond. you'll just try to deflect with some nonsense, which is what the dimonds do when I write to them... and that's all you would be expected to do... just be aware of it.. is all i'm saying...but it's pretty funny that you are the ones who brought up St. Alphonsus Liguori and St. Thomas Aquinas... now you have to EAT YOUR WORDS...in front of everyone!!call the dimonds and ask them what to say...

    Last Trad and I JUST finished saying that we do not care about BoD as it was taught by St. Thomas, St. Robert Bellarmine, et al.  What we object to is the heretical turds like yourself who leverage BoD to undermine EENS.

    So, Lover of Heresy, aka "John", do you follow the teaching of St. Thomas Aquinas that explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation are necessary for salvation?
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    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #19 on: October 05, 2019, 07:03:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 05, 2019, 06:46:30 PM
    Because the CMRI posters are invariably the ones who make the promotion of BoD and undermining of EENS a veritable crusade.  They're obsessed with the issue and make it their life's work to promote BoD.  We've had several posters from CMRI who did nothing else but post spam against "Feeneyism" the entire time they were here.
    I'll be honest.  On whole I'm way more bothered by what I'd consider watering down of EENS (to be clear, I'm not trying to assert that my opinion is worth much) than I am about feeneyites or the "BOD for catechumens only" position.  As someone who currently takes a slightly broader position, I'm also aware of why that gets pragmatically problematic (ie. because it invariably gets abused.)  I'm *FAR* more bothered by Von Balthasaar than I am by Feeney.

    And in real life, i spend a lot more time arguing against the former than the latter.

    Its really just on this forum that my emphasis is like this because on this forum basically nobody is more "liberal" than me on this (Even though, as far as I can tell, I'm basically in agreement with Lefebvre and most trad clergy).  But in real life its very, very different.
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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #20 on: October 05, 2019, 07:42:45 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 05, 2019, 06:52:48 PM
    So, Lover of Heresy, aka "John", do you follow the teaching of St. Thomas Aquinas that explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation are necessary for salvation?

    Whoops, there goes the Hindus, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Sikhs, etc.

    There's also submission to the Roman Pontiff,

    Whoops, there goes Protestants, Eastern "Orthodox", Old "Catholics", etc.
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #21 on: October 05, 2019, 07:54:19 PM »
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    There's also submission to the Roman Pontiff,

    Whoops, there goes Protestants, Eastern "Orthodox", Old "Catholics", etc.

    And Sedes.  And SSPX Resistance...
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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #22 on: October 05, 2019, 07:58:40 PM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on October 05, 2019, 07:54:19 PM
    And Sedes.  And SSPX Resistance...

    I take it you submit to the teachings of Vatican II, then?
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #23 on: October 05, 2019, 08:02:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: John on October 05, 2019, 04:54:40 PM
    Pope Pius IX (19th century): Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, 1863: “There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.”



    https://www.cathinfo.com/baptism-of-desire-and-feeneyism/vatican-ii-ecclesiology-and-cmri-sspx-sspv-etc/msg662811/#msg662811


    Pius IX

    On Promotion of False Doctrines, 1863

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius09/p9quanto.htm


    Quote
    7. Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments.

    19.

    (. . .)

    Let us pray that the errant be flooded with the light of his divine grace, may turn back from the path of error into the way of truth and justice and, experiencing the worthy fruit of repentance, may possess perpetual love and fear of his holy name.





    Leo XIII


    On Mission Societies, 1880

    http://www.papalencyclicals.net/leo13/l13mis.htm



    Quote
    6.

    (. . .)

    Do men like these pour forth their prayers to God that in His mercy he may bring to the Divine light of the Gospel by His victorious grace the people sitting in the darkness?
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #24 on: October 05, 2019, 08:03:02 PM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on October 05, 2019, 07:58:40 PM
    I take it you submit to the teachings of Vatican II, then?
    I was more commenting on the irony than anything else.  Its really, really weird to take a hardline "there is ABSOLUTELY no salvation without submission to the ROman Pontiff... but we haven't had a Roman Pontiff for 61 years" type position.  Or even worse a "There's certainly a Pope in Rome, but we want NOTHING to do with him."

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    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #25 on: October 05, 2019, 08:06:12 PM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on October 05, 2019, 08:03:02 PM
    I was more commenting on the irony than anything else.  Its really, really weird to take a hardline "there is ABSOLUTELY no salvation without submission to the ROman Pontiff... but we haven't had a Roman Pontiff for 61 years" type position.  Or even worse a "There's certainly a Pope in Rome, but we want NOTHING to do with him."

    Not so, vacant or not, a Catholic submits to the Papal office by submitting to past teachings and future ones as well, if promulgated, while the heretic and schismatic is not willing to submit, period.  
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #26 on: October 05, 2019, 08:11:50 PM »
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    • Responses to the original poster do not even need to delve into Baptism of Desire.

    First and foremost is the denial of the Athanasius Creed.

    Secondly, an erroneous belief that Pius IX taught that souls could be saved while remaining invincibly ignorant of the gospel and the Church. The key phrase, "by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace" is not registering in such minds. In one ear, and out the other.
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline John

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #27 on: October 05, 2019, 08:49:18 PM »
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    • Wow..I can log on here after 8 years and all you can do is still deflect. That was to be expected.

     The LAD-IS-LOST!

     You meant rather to say that you do not care about BOD as it is taught by THE CHURCH.. OFFICIALLY!

    because you do not respect Church authority. Period!

     You WILL NOT SERVE what your ego will not allow you to! 

    CMRI are not here to undermine EENS, 

    CMRI are here to defend the magisterium of the Church! 

     BOD does not undermine EENS!

    CMRI doesn't make the BOD an issue, except when Dimond and Crawford make it such an issue against CMRI/i.e., against the Catholic Church, going so far as  tearing apart families with their pseudo theological gibberish.. but they dont care because they've made this an "issue" and people like you are gullible enough to believe it. And it's all based on misrepresentation of the teachings of the Church! Straw man!

    You have no case but to either refer to the Dimonds.. and they are thoroughly discredited..or to deflect...

     because your arguments are not against the CMRI but the Universal Ordinary Magisterium of the Church!
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    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #28 on: October 05, 2019, 08:56:52 PM »
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    • http://www.cmri.org/02-v2_non-christian.shtml

    Quote
    The attitude of the Catholic Church towards pagans, Mohammedans and Jews has always been clear — there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Even supposing a person were invincibly ignorant of the true Church, he must still follow the natural law to be saved (implicit baptism of desire).




    St. Thomas Aquinas

    Quaestiones disputatae de veritate

    Question Fourteen: Faith

    ARTICLE XI: In the eleventh article we ask: Is it necessary to believe explicitly?

    https://dhspriory.org/thomas/english/QDdeVer14.htm#11


    Quote
    Answers to Difficulties

    1. Granted that everyone is bound to believe something explicitly, no untenable conclusion follows even if someone is brought up in the forest or among wild beasts. For it pertains to divine providence to furnish everyone with what is necessary for salvation, provided that on his part there is no hindrance. Thus, if someone so brought up followed the direction of natural reason in seeking good and avoiding evil, we must most certainly hold that God would either reveal to him through internal inspiration what had to be believed, or would send some preacher of the faith to him as he sent Peter to Cornelius (Acts 10:20).


    Pope Pius XI - 1928

    Mortalium Animos
    On Religious Unity

    https://www.papalencyclicals.net/pius11/p11morta.htm


    Quote
    13.

    (. . .)

    We desire that Our children should also know, not only those who belong to the Catholic community, but also those who are separated from Us: if these latter humbly beg light from heaven, there is no doubt but that they will recognize the one true Church of Jesus Christ and will, at last, enter it, being united with us in perfect charity.



    St. Thomas:


    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3002.htm#article7

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3002.htm#article8

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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #29 on: October 05, 2019, 09:03:46 PM »
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    • Lads has a keen eye, nailing John’s CMRI affiliation on his initial response  :cowboy:

    As a generalization, this sede sect has a tell-tale emotional characteristic.

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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi
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