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Author Topic: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video  (Read 8210 times)

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Offline sedevacantist3

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Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
« Reply #105 on: October 16, 2019, 02:05:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 08, 2019, 08:29:20 PM
    Is cuм Ex still in force?  Pope St Pius X and Pope Pius XII both updated the conclave elections laws, added to that the 1917 revamping the code of canon law.  The burden of proof is on you to prove that cuм Ex is still 100% in force.
    So are you saying that if this crisis took place in 1916.you would hold  the sedevacantist position ?   You never responded to the following from months ago
     
     
    LeDeg
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    Re: cuм ex apostolatus officio
    « Reply #91 on: May 01, 2019, 04:02:02 PM »
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    Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 25, 2019, 03:14:05 PM
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    Quote
    Can you explain what you mean? 
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    The question is, what is the law subsequent to 1917, which incorporates the essential principle of  cuм ex apostolatus  in canon 188, and the footnotes tell us that  cuм ex apostolatus  is the source, so if there's any doubt about how to interpret canon 188, we are to use  cuм ex apostolatus to settle the matter. That principle's in the Code too, right at the beginning, in the section on interpretation.[/font][/size][/color]
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #106 on: October 16, 2019, 03:47:34 PM »
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    • My opinion is that cuм Ex was a lengthy law which covered a variety of issues.  It is clear that canon law refers to cuм Ex, on a few points.  It is also clear that St Pius X and Pius XII amended the conclave laws, which cuм Ex partially dealt with.  The only logical solution is that St Pius X and XII amended part of cuм Ex (the conclave election rules) and canon law amended/included the rest.  
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #107 on: October 17, 2019, 05:45:27 AM »
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    • Fr Hesse briefly discusses the SV position and rules it out. Fr Hesse says that SVs like to rely on the Apostolic Bull of Pope Paul IV cuм Ex Apostolatus Officio which says that a heretic cannot become Pope. He explains that the election of the Supreme Pontiff is a canonical election, which is an act of administration and is therefore not infallible. Papal election is an act of administration, not a sacrament. It is not a theological procedure, therefore there cannot be an infallible pronouncement on it. He states that the Bull is infallible as far as doctrinal statements are concerned, but it cannot be infallible as far as administrative rules are concerned. These rules have been changed by subsequent Popes a couple of dozen times in Church History.

    He talks about this from 10:54 till about 14:06 here





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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline John

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #108 on: October 17, 2019, 08:51:55 PM »
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    • Fr. Hesse's ordination is doubtful...he was ordained in the new rite. If he's valid, then so is every novus ordo "presbyter"...
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    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline John

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #109 on: October 17, 2019, 08:56:13 PM »
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    • In other words, "Fr." Hesse was merely qualified to preside over assemblies of the "people of God"... with no priestly powers. 
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    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #110 on: October 18, 2019, 01:52:33 AM »
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    • Quote from: John on October 11, 2019, 04:44:48 PM

    Trad123-
    this answers you as well..

    St. Alphonsus did not unambiguously support the Thomistic thesis that explicit faith in the Trinity and the Incarnation is necessary for salvation. In his “Theologia Moralis,” Alphonsus asks which articles of faith must be explicitly believed for salvation and he considers four:
    1. God exists.
     2. God “is a rewarder to them that seek him” (Hebrews 11:6).
     3. The Holy Trinity.
     4. The Incarnation.
    He says explicit belief in the first two is certainly necessary, while explicit belief in the last two is necessary according to the more common and more probable opinion, but he explains why the contrary opinion is “also quite probable.”

    They are both probable, the first one being more likely, the second being "also quite probable".

    John,

    To put in perspective the importance of the doctrinal fight of Father Feeney, consider this: name a single Sedevacantist priest (Sanborn, Cekada, Jenkins, etc.) who holds the "common and more probable opinion" (St. Alphonsus) that explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation is necessary for salvation.

    Shoot, to put it more glaringly in perspective, name a single cleric - Sede, SSPX, Novus Ordo - who does so.
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #111 on: October 18, 2019, 02:02:29 AM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on October 18, 2019, 01:52:33 AM
    John,

    To put in perspective the importance of the doctrinal fight of Father Feeney, consider this: name a single Sedevacantist priest (Sanborn, Cekada, Jenkins, etc.) who holds the "common and more probable opinion" (St. Alphonsus) that explicit faith in the Holy Trinity and Incarnation is necessary for salvation.

    Shoot, to put it more glaringly in perspective, name a single cleric - Sede, SSPX, Novus Ordo - who does so.

    And I don't mean "Father Bob." 

    Can you name a single cleric who has a well known public presence and a recognized voice?
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #112 on: October 18, 2019, 05:43:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: John on October 17, 2019, 08:51:55 PM
    Fr. Hesse's ordination is doubtful...he was ordained in the new rite. If he's valid, then so is every novus ordo "presbyter"...
    Quote from: John on October 17, 2019, 08:56:13 PM
    In other words, "Fr." Hesse was merely qualified to preside over assemblies of the "people of God"... with no priestly powers.

    You should avoid stating that which you most certainly do not know about, as if what you don't know about is a fact.

    Go to 1:04: "...I have been ordained, unfortunately in the new rite of ordination, but thank God in Latin, everything strictly by the book and +ABL said that would be valid, +Fellay said it's valid and Fr. Franz Schmidberger who is my present superior in Austria says it's valid and +Williamson said there's no need for conditional ordination...."

    https://youtu.be/lfJZv44xFHQ?t=62
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #113 on: October 18, 2019, 06:50:23 AM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on October 12, 2019, 09:16:57 PM
    Bishop George Hay. No Salvation Outside of the Catholic Church (pp. 22-23)

    Now, here was a man who still had the Catholic faith.  It's appalling that you can barely find a Traditional Catholic who still believes what this good bishop teaches.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #114 on: October 18, 2019, 06:54:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: forlorn on October 13, 2019, 06:44:10 AM
    Atheists can have implicit faith in a God that rewards, which amounts to implicit faith in the Christian God, which grants for implicit baptism of desire.

    But this does not contradict EENS becauae the atheist is both within and without the Church simultaneously. It's a mystery of faith, don't force me to defend my mumbo-jumbo with facts and logic.

    Oh and if you disagree then you're a heretic because a saint said a catechumen can be saved.

    This exposes them quite nicely.  Well done.  They always hide behind those Doctors who believed that a catechumen could be saved by BoD to pretend that this supports their contention that infidels can be saved, and if you don't believe that infidels can be saved, you're contradicting these Doctors ... even though these Doctors themselves clearly held that infidels cannot be saved.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #115 on: October 18, 2019, 06:55:53 AM »
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    • John has exposed himself for his bad-willed contempt for Catholic EENS dogma.  He quotes selectively, misapplies those quotes, and then rejects (or completely ignores) quotes that contradict his own position.

    I might be interested in discussing this issue with you, John, if you had the intellectual honesty to admit --

    "I know that all the Church Fathers and Doctors and saints believed that infidels cannot be saved, but I have chosen to cling to the minority opinion that people can be saved merely by belief in a Rewarder God."  Admit this, that you are pertinaciously clinging to the minority opinion, and then I might engage with you.  Until then, you are of bad will and a complete waste of everyone's time.  Even Father Fenton, who believed in BoD, stated that Rewarder God theory is a minority opinion (and he himself did not hold that opinion).
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    Offline John

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #116 on: October 19, 2019, 09:31:04 AM »
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    • After 8 pages of your red herring arguments, the fact remains that you self appointed anti-popes DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE  in the Church teaching of EXPLICIT Baptism of desire..

    So of course you wouldn't be able to understand the words "also quite probable"...

    And if you say I have a false understanding  of Implicit, where would I find what the Church means by "implicit desire"? Where is that defined?




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    [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him

    Offline ByzCat3000

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #117 on: October 19, 2019, 09:36:29 AM »
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    • Leaving aside the argument of John's bad will, I'm still curious about the original video.

    I mean explicit BOD and implicit BOD are different issues, and I get that most Feeneyites don't mind explicit BOD very much, but it still seems relevant whether or not that's error.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #118 on: October 19, 2019, 10:25:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: ByzCat3000 on October 19, 2019, 09:36:29 AM
    Leaving aside the argument of John's bad will, I'm still curious about the original video.

    I mean explicit BOD and implicit BOD are different issues, and I get that most Feeneyites don't mind explicit BOD very much, but it still seems relevant whether or not that's error.

    There are also different levels of "implicit".

    Explicit:  I want to become a Catholic and want to be baptized.
    Implicit 1:  I want to become a Catholic (implicit want to be baptized).
    Implicit 2:  I want to do God's will (implicit want to become a Catholic, since it's what God wills, and implicit want to be baptized, since it's what God wills).
    Implicit 3:  I'm a nice guy doing the best I can (implicit want to do God's will ... the rest as in Implicit 2).

    Most people believe in Implicit 3 today.

    As seen by how it could lead to #3, this notion of "implicit" is one of the most dangerous in all of Catholic theology, being exploited to no end by enemies of the faith to undermine Catholic dogma.

    Implicit 2 lines up with Rewarder God theory and didn't exist before that was invented by a couple of Jesuits around 1600.

    Implicit 1 (and Explicit of course) requires explicit faith in the core Catholic dogmas.

    Implicit 3 opens things up even to atheists, or even to, hypothetically, those who believe that God rewards the wicked and punishes the just ... like the Aztecs and worshippers of Baal or even Satanists.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Reverend Crawford , Feeney, Dimond video
    « Reply #119 on: October 19, 2019, 10:31:51 AM »
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    • Quote from: John on October 19, 2019, 09:31:04 AM
    After 8 pages of your red herring arguments, the fact remains that you self appointed anti-popes DO NOT EVEN BELIEVE  in the Church teaching of EXPLICIT Baptism of desire..

    That's because the Church teaches no such thing.  But you claim that the Church does, and therefore it is YOU who reject what you say is Church teaching.

    JACH  (Just Another CMRI Heretic)
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