Author Topic: Questions for Raoul76 (Read 6130 times)

PartyIsOver221 · « **Reply #15 on:** December 17, 2011, 10:43:10 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: curiouscatholic23
I would highly recommend reading MHFM book "Outside The Church There is Absolutely No Salvation." It addresses all the points you brought up.

I would highly reccommend you burn that book.

And why did they need to change "Outside the Church There is No Salvation" to "Outside The Church There is Absolutely No Salvation"?

s2srea, I'm just curious when I ask this, but would you or have you attended a sedevacantist-clergy led Mass?

FYI.. I have the Dimonds books, and they are a wealth of knowledge, yet at many times I have felt a bit over the top in their dealings with people they call "heretics" many times. Something about the books feels a little creepy or eerie too... but thats just feelings. Maybe its the devil tempting me away from reading it, but maybe its God saying don't read it. Who knows.

s2srea · « **Reply #16 on:** December 17, 2011, 10:49:36 AM »

Quote from: PartyIsOver221

s2srea, I'm just curious when I ask this, but would you or have you attended a sedevacantist-clergy led Mass?

FYI.. I have the Dimonds books, and they are a wealth of knowledge, yet at many times I have felt a bit over the top in their dealings with people they call "heretics" many times. Something about the books feels a little creepy or eerie too... but thats just feelings. Maybe its the devil tempting me away from reading it, but maybe its God saying don't read it. Who knows.

PIO, as I've mentioned before, I attend CMRI masses every so often. About every two months.

FYI- As Raoul76 has said before, there's always some truth to heretics, like the Diamonds. Its the non truth that is dangerous, especially for those with scruples like cc223.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 17, 2011, 11:51:55 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: PartyIsOver221
s2srea, I'm just curious when I ask this, but would you or have you attended a sedevacantist-clergy led Mass?

FYI.. I have the Dimonds books, and they are a wealth of knowledge, yet at many times I have felt a bit over the top in their dealings with people they call "heretics" many times. Something about the books feels a little creepy or eerie too... but thats just feelings. Maybe its the devil tempting me away from reading it, but maybe its God saying don't read it. Who knows.

PIO, as I've mentioned before, I attend CMRI masses every so often. About every two months.

FYI- As Raoul76 has said before, there's always some truth to heretics, like the Diamonds. Its the non truth that is dangerous, especially for those with scruples like cc223.

You just called the Dimonds heretics. Does that mean you believe the Dimonds should be barred from communion if by chance they showed up at your CMRI chapel this Sunday?

Do you think I am a heretic and headed to hell because I believe NFP is sinful and I take John 3:5 as it is written?

Be carefull how loosely you throw around the word heretic.

s2srea · « **Reply #18 on:** December 17, 2011, 01:23:36 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

Be carefull how loosely you throw around the word heretic.

..... Coming from the guy promoting MHFM on this forum! hahahahaha!

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #19 on:** December 17, 2011, 04:57:04 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

I would highly recommend reading MHFM book "Outside The Church There is Absolutely No Salvation." It addresses all the points you brought up.

The problem, curiouscatholic, is that you just can't use the Dimonds as the authority on everything. They aren't even priests, for starters. They're laymen. What a priest says regarding theology is more important than what a laymen says on theology, unless that priest happens to be a flaming liberal.

Quote

Be carefull how loosely you throw around the word heretic.

The Dimonds might want to take your advice as well, they throw around the word heretic more than anyone I have ever seen. They say you're a heretic if you put money in the plate of the SSPX, FSSP, CMRI, SSPV, or any of the other priestly groups and encourage home-alone-ism. They also label nearly everyone as heretics, and for pretty ridiculous reasons. For example, one time on their web-site they said Archbishop LeFebvre was a heretic for using the 1962 Missal. Nonsense! I admit that a pre-1962 Missal would be better, but you aren't a heretic just because you use a 1962 Missal.

I agree with Raoul on BOD, if you die desiring to be a member of the Church then you die a member of the Church.

I don't have a problem with you or anyone else using some material from the Dimonds. What bothers me though, cc, is that you use them and what they say for almost every subject. They aren't right about everything and you need to realize that at some point for the good of your soul.

Raoul76 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 17, 2011, 05:03:03 PM »

Telesphorus said:

Quote

That's a very weak reason. Lots of people support lots of priests, and priests often of approve of things they shouldn't.

As for the fact that French priests you know of approve of it - that's another very weak reason, given the national character of France.

Leaving aside the dig at France, no, it isn't weak to be obedient, to learn to mistrust yourself and trust someone who has more expertise than you.

Of course I know priests can be wrong about things, but when ALL priests are saying this is a true teaching, including one who is hitting every single mark politically, spiritually, etc. -- in other words, not tainted with any Americanism whatsoever -- then that has value.

Do you think Christ was obedient to His mother for 30 years because He wanted us to be lone wolves and piece it all together on our own? If even He was obedient, that is telling us we HAVE to be obedient. EVERYONE will be put to that test; if you can't bend the knee, you are heading for blindness. I have seen it over and over and over again.

But the main thing is, I didn't change my mind on my own, meaning it wasn't like I thought my way out of the problem. I can see Feeneyites doing that, everything is about logic and thinking, trusting their own intellect, trying to puzzle things out, make connections -- but it is THEIR intellect, human intellect, not the mind of God. I had a major scruple, the devil was trying to get me to stay home from Mass, and succeeding; I had no peace of mind, looking back I was extremely tormented, and in God's mercy He lifted the fog. I also had people praying for me. I was told by a priest at CMRI that almost no one in that situation ever snaps out of it, so that was yet another miraculous save on God's part. There have been many.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2011, 05:20:21 PM »

Quote

Of course I know priests can be wrong about things, but when ALL priests are saying this is a true teaching, including one who is hitting every single mark politically, spiritually, etc. -- in other words, not tainted with any Americanism whatsoever -- then that has value.

How do you define the "true teaching of NFP"

Because even the use of the words NFP to describe it is problematic.

There are people using"NFP" with the approval of trad priests right now who are probably sinning. Just as there are many people who have an overly liberal view of drinking.

There's never been more apostasy than now, so while I'm not saying I approve of the positions of posters like Ladislaus and the scruples of CC, I do think that the fact that sede priests from France seem to generally approve of something is a very weak reason to have unqualified support for it.

s2srea · « **Reply #22 on:** December 17, 2011, 05:48:13 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: curiouscatholic23
I would highly recommend reading MHFM book "Outside The Church There is Absolutely No Salvation." It addresses all the points you brought up.

The problem, curiouscatholic, is that you just can't use the Dimonds as the authority on everything. They aren't even priests, for starters. They're laymen. What a priest says regarding theology is more important than what a laymen says on theology, unless that priest happens to be a flaming liberal.

Well said SS. If I may add, not only are they (MHFM) laymen, they're laymen posing as monks! And they're high school dropouts!

Someone (nadie I think) said somewhere that the Diamonds have more 'testicular fortitude' than the posters here who argue against them. Actually, if they're gonna rip hundreds of people off, they'd better damn well have testicular fortitude, condemning virtually everyone they encounter as a heretic- they do this because they're not priests, people will not go to them for sacraments, so they scare people into believing all virtually all priests are heretics, and if they support these priests, they're also heretics! Nice way to make money- only they're placing their souls and the souls of thousands of others in danger! You can keep your testicular fortitude for all I care. I'd rather not be a feeneyite heretic or a follower of a high school drop out.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #23 on:** December 17, 2011, 06:18:33 PM »

Could you as a Catholic in good conscience say:

"We planned our family, how many children we would have"

The term NFP should not be used.

s2srea · « **Reply #24 on:** December 17, 2011, 06:25:19 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Could you as a Catholic in good conscience say:

"We planned our family, how many children we would have"

The term NFP should not be used.

I agree sort of agree with you Tele but what is the proper term, rhythm?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #25 on:** December 17, 2011, 06:31:04 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

I agree sort of agree with you Tele but what is the proper term, rhythm?

What did Pope Pius XII call it?

Quote

The matrimonial contract, which confers on the married couple the right to satisfy the inclination of nature, constitutes them in a state of life, namely, the matrimonial state. Now, on married couples, who make use of the specific act of their state, nature and the Creator impose the function of providing for the preservation of mankind. This is the characteristic service which gives rise to the peculiar value of their state, the <bonum prolis>. The individual and society, the people and the State, the Church itself, depend for their existence, in the order established by God, on fruitful marriages. Therefore, to embrace the matrimonial state, to use continually the faculty proper to such a state and lawful only therein, and, at the same time, to avoid its primary duty without a grave reason, would be a sin against the very nature of married life.

Serious motives, such as those which not rarely arise from medical, eugenic, economic and social so-called "indications," may exempt husband and wife from the obligatory, positive debt for a long period or even for the entire period of matrimonial life. From this it follows that the observance of the natural sterile periods may be lawful, from the moral viewpoint: and it is lawful in the conditions mentioned. If, however, according to a reasonable and equitable judgment, there are no such grave reasons either personal or deriving from exterior circuмstances, the will to avoid the fecundity of their union, while continuing to satisfy to tile full their sensuality, can only be the result of a false appreciation of life and of motives foreign to sound ethical principles.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #26 on:** December 17, 2011, 06:33:17 PM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus
Quote from: curiouscatholic23
I would highly recommend reading MHFM book "Outside The Church There is Absolutely No Salvation." It addresses all the points you brought up.

The problem, curiouscatholic, is that you just can't use the Dimonds as the authority on everything. They aren't even priests, for starters. They're laymen. What a priest says regarding theology is more important than what a laymen says on theology, unless that priest happens to be a flaming liberal.

Well said SS. If I may add, not only are they (MHFM) laymen, they're laymen posing as monks! And they're high school dropouts!

Someone (nadie I think) said somewhere that the Diamonds have more 'testicular fortitude' than the posters here who argue against them. Actually, if they're gonna rip hundreds of people off, they'd better damn well have testicular fortitude, condemning virtually everyone they encounter as a heretic- they do this because they're not priests, people will not go to them for sacraments, so they scare people into believing all virtually all priests are heretics, and if they support these priests, they're also heretics! Nice way to make money- only they're placing their souls and the souls of thousands of others in danger! You can keep your testicular fortitude for all I care. I'd rather not be a feeneyite heretic or a follower of a high school drop out.

You keep saying they are high school dropouts. Who cares? Its a public masonic school system anyway. And even if they were dropouts, they are the most articulate and intelligent high school dropouts I have ever heard.

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #27 on:** December 17, 2011, 08:51:21 PM »

Quote from: curiouscatholic23

You keep saying they are high school dropouts. Who cares? Its a public masonic school system anyway. And even if they were dropouts, they are the most articulate and intelligent high school dropouts I have ever heard.

Them having dropped out of high school doesn't bother me that much, even though I wouldn't advise someone to ditch education alltogether (I'd tell them to homeschool instead). But what bothers me cc, is that they label themselves as monks when they're really laymen and go around making declarations and rules as if they have the authority to do so. They are not ordained and we shoudn't trust a layperson over a priest, unless like I said that priest happens to be flaming liberal.

You're missing the point, cc. There's nothing wrong with using some of their materal or to agree with some of the things they say. But to look to them as the authority on everything is dangerous, regardless of how intelligent they are.

curiouscatholic23 · « **Reply #28 on:** December 17, 2011, 09:10:34 PM »

Quote from: SpiritusSanctus

Quote from: curiouscatholic23
You keep saying they are high school dropouts. Who cares? Its a public masonic school system anyway. And even if they were dropouts, they are the most articulate and intelligent high school dropouts I have ever heard.

Them having dropped out of high school doesn't bother me that much, even though I wouldn't advise someone to ditch education alltogether (I'd tell them to homeschool instead). But what bothers me cc, is that they label themselves as monks when they're really laymen and go around making declarations and rules as if they have the authority to do so. They are not ordained and we shoudn't trust a layperson over a priest, unless like I said that priest happens to be flaming liberal.

You're missing the point, cc. There's nothing wrong with using some of their materal or to agree with some of the things they say. But to look to them as the authority on everything is dangerous, regardless of how intelligent they are.

Well now that I am a sede and I believe in John 3:5 as it is written and I believe in Cast Connubi who else am I to turn to for answers?

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #29 on:** December 17, 2011, 09:15:36 PM »

You don't have to get ALL of your answers on Catholicism from sedes.