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Author Topic: Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?  (Read 6445 times)

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Offline Cristian

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Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
« Reply #30 on: January 02, 2011, 07:40:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Tradycja
    I was wondering if everyone could answer this question with a simple YES or NO answer (as anything else is from the devil).  


    Does one need to believe in Jesus to be saved?



    It cannot be answered by a mere "yes" or "not". You have to distinguish if to believe in Jesus is a necessity of means or a necessity of precept, if implicit believe is enough, etc. You simply don´t care what theologians say on this point.

    The part of "anything else is from the devil" is out of context and silly!

    Cristian


    Offline Stubborn

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #31 on: January 03, 2011, 02:41:31 PM »
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  • Yes
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline Telesphorus

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #32 on: January 03, 2011, 03:24:21 PM »
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  • Quote from: stinko
    German alphabet:

    1 2 3  4 5 6   7 8 9

    A A B  C D E  F G H

    I  J K  L M N  O O P

    Q R S  S T U  U V W

    X Y Z

    Germany from 1871-1945 was officially called:

    D  E  U  T  S  C  H  E  S     R  E  I  C  H

    5+6+6+5+3+4+9+6+3+  2+6+1+4+9 =69, 6+9=15, 1+5=6

    World War I began: Saturday                                                       6

                           August 1, 1914          8+1+1+9+1+4=24, 2+4=6



    Deutsches Reich was the name of the beast, 'born' Aug 1, 1914. This is the meaning of the 666.


    Are you Catholic?

    Offline Ethelred

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #33 on: January 04, 2011, 09:57:38 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Are you Catholic?

    Well, Idiothic for sure.

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #34 on: January 05, 2011, 10:21:22 PM »
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  • stinko, are you a Roman Catholic, yes or no?


    Offline Belloc

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #35 on: January 06, 2011, 09:46:00 AM »
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  • Quote from: Tradycja
    I was wondering if everyone could answer this question with a simple YES or NO answer (as anything else is from the devil).  


    Does one need to believe in Jesus to be saved?


    you ask a question and then the very next response is from you stating "yes"....that was rather silly, no? a strawman question and post......why not combine in one post saying " I think yes, but what do you all think"....comes off strawman-ey
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #36 on: January 06, 2011, 09:47:04 AM »
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  • Quote from: Roman Catholic
    Quote from: Tradycja


    anything else is from the devil




    Is it from the devil to ask you to please tell us who decreed that anything else that gets posted in answer to your question is from the devil?




    again, thanks for proving Trady is not that intelligent, posting a self serving and puffed up strawman post....what a waste of bytes for CI......
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #37 on: January 06, 2011, 10:01:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: Tradycja
    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.  Matthew 5:37


    I am not going to comment on anyone's answer nor get into BOD or BOB or any such debate, it just would be interesting to see what everyone's response will be.  We are just talking about belief in Christ here.  

       Can you answer yes or no?  


    again, you set yourself up as judge, jury and executioner in a rigged trial.....strawman!!

    your ancestors before Christ-any hope if they are saved?

    since we are throwing out quotes, recall Paul:


    Romans 2:14 and follows ". [14] For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves: [15] Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another,

    [16] In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.



    also, Thomas A:

    http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2094.htm

    and Pope Pius IX:

    Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863: "And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brothers, We should mention again and censure a very grave error in which some Catholics are unhappily engaged, who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. Indeed, this is certainly quite contrary to Catholic teaching. It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin.
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Belloc

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #38 on: January 06, 2011, 10:05:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus
    Just because something was taught in the 40's and 50's here in America or in Holland or Germany does not make it de fide.  The whole "Greatest Generation" and their spoiled rotten baby-boomer kids are what got us into this mess to begin with, what with their indifferentism and urge for acceptance into American society at all costs. President Kennedy's shameful speech to that Baptist Convention in Houston in 1960 is a good example.



    true, Hertz's book on AMericanism proves shockingly, that Americanism was long  standing and morphed in USA into Modernism....greatest generation, Bill Kauffman notes, was the generation that gave us much of problems we have with us and compounded many existing before them...
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #39 on: January 06, 2011, 10:25:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: parentsfortruth
    See my signature. I think that answers the question.



    Actually, no for many Feeneyists, they often quote that and go no further, as if development of EENS stops then, yet what about Pope Pius the IX??? you recognize him as a valid Pope, do you not?

    Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Allocution Singulari Quadem, December 9, 1854: "Not without sorrow we have learned that another error, no less destructive, has taken possession of some parts of the Catholic world, and has taken up its abode in the souls of many Catholics who think that one should have good hope of the eternal salvation of all those who have never lived in the true Church of Christ. Therefore, they are wont to ask very often what will be the lot and condition of those who have not submitted in any way to the Catholic faith, and, by bringing forward most vain reasons, they make a response favorable to their false opinion. Far be it from Us, Venerable Brethren, to presume on the limits of the divine mercy which is infinite; far from Us, to wish to scrutinize the hidden counsel and "judgements of God" which are "a great abyss" (Ps. 35.7) and cannot be penetrated by human thought. But, as is Our Apostolic Duty, we wish your episcopal solicitude and vigilance to be aroused, so that you will strive as much as you can to drive form the mind of men that impious and equally fatal opinion, namely, that the way of eternal salvation can be found in any religion whatsoever. May you demonstrate with skill and learning in which you excel, to the people entrusted to your care that the dogmas of the Catholic faith are in no wise opposed to divine mercy and justice.
    "For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, will not be held guilty of this in the eyes of God. Now, in truth, who would arrogate so much to himself as to mark the limits of such an ignorance, because of the nature and variety of peoples, regions, innate dispositions, and of so many other things? For, in truth, when released from these corporeal chains 'we shall see God as He is' (1 John 3.2), we shall understand perfectly by how close and beautiful a bond divine mercy and justice are united; but as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is "one God, one faith, one baptism" (Eph. 4.5); it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry.
    "But, just as the way of charity demands, let us pour forth continual prayers that all nations everywhere may be converted to Christ; and let us be devoted to the common salvation of men in proportion to our strength, 'for the hand of the Lord is not shortened' (Isa. 9.1) and the gifts of heavenly grace will not be wanting to those who sincerely wish and ask to be refreshed by this light."[4]

    Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): "Teach that just as there is only one God, one Christ, one Holy Spirit, so there is also only one truth which is divinely revealed. There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and come to the community of His children (Romans 1; Hebrews 11; Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter 8). There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord (St. Cyprian, Epistle 43), outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church (ibid, On the Unity of the Catholic Church). ... Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control."[5]

    Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863: "And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brothers, We should mention again and censure a very grave error in which some Catholics are unhappily engaged, who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. Indeed, this is certainly quite contrary to Catholic teaching. It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin. But, the Catholic dogma that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church is well-known; and also that those who are obstinate toward the authority and definitions of the same Church, and who persistently separate themselves from the unity of the Church, and from the Roman Pontiff, the successor of Peter, to whom 'the guardianship of the vine has been entrusted by the Savior,' (Council of Chalcedon, Letter to Pope Leo I) cannot obtain eternal salvation. The words of Christ are clear enough: 'And if he will not hear the Church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican' (Matthew 18:17); 'He that heareth you, heareth Me; and he that dispeth you, despiseth Me; and he that dispiseth Me, despiseth Him that sent Me' (Luke 10:16); 'He that believeth not shall be condemned' (Mark 16:16); 'He that doth not believe, is already judged' (John 3:18); 'He that is not with Me, is against Me; and he that gathereth not with Me, scattereth' (Luke 11:23). The Apostle Paul says that such persons are 'perverted and self-condemned' (Titus 3:11); the Prince of the Apostles calls the 'false prophets… who shall bring in sects of perdition, and deny the Lord who bought them: bringing upon themselves swift destruction' (2 Peter 2:1)."[
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Belloc

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #40 on: January 06, 2011, 10:28:06 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    Quote from: stevusmagnus
    No. The Old Testament Saints did not believe in Jesus. They didn't have the opportunity to. And they were saved.


    They did believe in Him.


    those "Jєωs" in the OT and under teh OT covenant did awai the Messiah, obvisouly, others (like magi) had some knowledge too...but about Stevus Chines guy dying in 34 AD, how do yo uanswer that?? prior to CHrist, were only OT Jєωs on their way to Heaven? all our non-Jєω pagan relatives roasting now?? or, possible those following natural law and the memory of Noah/etc maybe had a chance, albeit purgatory,etc.?
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic


    Offline Belloc

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #41 on: January 06, 2011, 10:32:52 AM »
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  • Quote from: Telesphorus
    stinko, are you a Roman Catholic, yes or no?


    sounds like NO
    Proud "European American" and prouder, still, Catholic

    Offline Telesphorus

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #42 on: January 06, 2011, 11:16:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: stinko
    the messenger is not important


    I take that as an admission that you are not Catholic.


    Offline umblehay anmay

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #43 on: January 07, 2011, 08:52:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Yes, I also believe God can reveal His truths to any atheist, pagan or other such false beliefs, at the last moments of their life.  

    Unlike the Feeny group who put God in a box, and limit His Almighty power.  


    But don't you also say that very few are saved?

    Offline Charles

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    Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
    « Reply #44 on: January 16, 2011, 11:10:30 PM »
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  • Yes, precisely because it is revealed so few are saved.