[St Jude Thaddeus]

Not to belabor the point, but the following quote exemplifies the kind of mentality I was speaking out against:

Hmmm... Well, I'm not as eager to send people to Hell as some around here, but fortunately, George hαɾɾιson's ultimate fate is not up to you or me -- it's between him and God. Personally, I can't bring myself to believe in (or worship) a God who would condemn a fundamentally decent person to everlasting torture just because that person's faith/worship took the "wrong" form. I also don't believe that Krishna and Vishnu (or Allah and Yahweh, for that matter) are devils, or even different Gods. They are just different names for the same God that we worship. And if George hαɾɾιson is in Hell, I'll probably be joining him, because he was a better and holier person than I am. Perhaps I will learn to be less tolerant by and by -- but I hope not.

This is from a FE thread where all but a few participants were praising the Beatles, Pink Floyd, and the Rolling Stones. Some said that it doesn't matter if those bands worshipped Satan or not, because they made good music.

I won't provide a link so as not to scandalize the faithful.

No one there commented on the above post, either. Neither would 99% of the Conciliar Church goers or probably at least 50% of so-called "Trads."
 

[stevusmagnus]

No. The Old Testament Saints did not believe in Jesus. They didn't have the opportunity to. And they were saved.

[MyrnaM]

I think the OP means the peoples of the world now under the New Covenant.  

It is my understanding after the fall, those people need only believe that a Savior would come one day to redeem them, to be saved.

Then later after Moses, it was required to believe the above and the 10 Commandments, in order to be saved.

After Jesus the Messiah came it was necessary to believe all of the above, plus that Jesus was the promised Messiah.  

Next to believe in the Church that Jesus founded, and so on and so on.  

Of course you have the between the line "stuff" to obey your conscience and Jєωιѕн laws, however even in the Bible it says somewhere, that no sin has been committed since the law was not revealed to them.  

Today we are more accountable as Catholics and much more is expected of us who are graced with the Traditional Catholic Faith.  

[parentsfortruth]

“The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jєωs or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church” (“Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra).

See my signature. I think that answers the question.

[stevusmagnus]

Gladius,

True. But my point was that people who never had the opportunity to believe in Jesus can still be saved. Many people who lived on earth after the Resurrection never had the opportunity to know He existed much less believe in Him just like the OT Saints.

[stevusmagnus]

Can you imagine living in ancient China, following your conscience to the best of your ability and seeking after Truth, then dying in 34 AD only to burn in Hell for all eternity because you weren't water baptized into the Faith of someone you had no idea existed?

It makes no sense even on the natural level of logic as applied to the concept of justice.

[Telesphorus]

No. The Old Testament Saints did not believe in Jesus. They didn't have the opportunity to. And they were saved.

They did believe in Him.

[stevusmagnus]

They believed the Messiah would come. They had no idea He would be God and didn't have the opportunity to believe He was.

[LM]

Not to belabor the point, but the following quote exemplifies the kind of mentality I was speaking out against:

Hmmm... Well, I'm not as eager to send people to Hell as some around here, but fortunately, George hαɾɾιson's ultimate fate is not up to you or me -- it's between him and God. Personally, I can't bring myself to believe in (or worship) a God who would condemn a fundamentally decent person to everlasting torture just because that person's faith/worship took the "wrong" form. I also don't believe that Krishna and Vishnu (or Allah and Yahweh, for that matter) are devils, or even different Gods. They are just different names for the same God that we worship. And if George hαɾɾιson is in Hell, I'll probably be joining him, because he was a better and holier person than I am. Perhaps I will learn to be less tolerant by and by -- but I hope not.

This is from a FE thread where all but a few participants were praising the Beatles, Pink Floyd, and the Rolling Stones. Some said that it doesn't matter if those bands worshipped Satan or not, because they made good music.

I won't provide a link so as not to scandalize the faithful.

No one there commented on the above post, either. Neither would 99% of the Conciliar Church goers or probably at least 50% of so-called "Trads."
 

I agree.  It was an eye opener when I realized "Trads" can be just as liberal as the crowd over at CA.

[St Jude Thaddeus]

I agree.  It was an eye opener when I realized "Trads" can be just as liberal as the crowd over at CA.

Right. The TLM only benefits those who let it. If you drag in your worldly baggage to the TLM, it will block you from receiving the graces that are available to you by assisting at the Holy Sacrifice. That's what happened to all the 50's and 60's Catholics (clergy and laity) who had been with the Latin Mass their whole lives.

[Telesphorus]

I agree.  It was an eye opener when I realized "Trads" can be just as liberal as the crowd over at CA.

A lot of the Trads are second generation and forums are not representative of the general population - nevertheless -  There are so many variables that default to the liberal position in this society that it takes a real intellect and force of will - or grace - to avoid falling into the general attitudes we see dominating these forums.

Another thing to remember is that trads who have lost the Faith who are secret liberals will deliberately try to undermine the religion on these boards.

The biggest pest to the Catholic Faith are those priests and religious who have lost the Faith but who remain in their positions and seek always to undermine it.  Those priests undoubtedly exist even in the most traditional groups - after all - they will have the strongest motivation in the traditional groups.  For that reason, I believe we cannot go along with those who insist on blind trust and faith in priests.  In this time it is not possible.

[LM]

I agree.  It was an eye opener when I realized "Trads" can be just as liberal as the crowd over at CA.

Right. The TLM only benefits those who let it. If you drag in your worldly baggage to the TLM, it will block you from receiving the graces that are available to you by assisting at the Holy Sacrifice. That's what happened to all the 50's and 60's Catholics (clergy and laity) who had been with the Latin Mass their whole lives.

You've given me something to think about.   Adding to what I said prior,  I am also coming to realize, that no one group of Trads , is immune from having liberal members.

[St Jude Thaddeus]

I am also coming to realize, that no one group of Trads , is immune from having liberal members.

That's right, no group. Everyone of us has been infected with the liberal mindset. It's practically in our DNA at this point.

Bp. Williamson said once something like that if the average modern citizen every bothered to find out what a Traditional Catholic really thinks, he would be calling for that Trad to be skinned alive.

Happy 2011 to everyone! May we all grow closer to God in this new year!

 :dancing-banana: and  

[LM]

I am also coming to realize, that no one group of Trads , is immune from having liberal members.

That's right, no group. Everyone of us has been infected with the liberal mindset. It's practically in our DNA at this point.

Bp. Williamson said once something like that if the average modern citizen every bothered to find out what a Traditional Catholic really thinks, he would be calling for that Trad to be skinned alive.

Happy 2011 to everyone! May we all grow closer to God in this new year!

 :dancing-banana: and  

I can see how that can be so.  Liberalism/modernism was already entrenched way before the Council, with Vat II being one of its "fruits".   Generations have been/are being raised within this environment, so it would be near impossible to not be tainted with it to some degree.

[LM]

I am reminded of what  I read somewhere, and has stayed on my mind:

Todays conservatives were yesterdays modernists.