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Author Topic: Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?  (Read 21461 times)

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Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2010, 02:15:47 PM »
Quote
Quote:
Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole.

[11] This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. [12] Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved


http://drbo.org/cgi-bin/d?b=drb&bk=51&ch=4&l=12&f=s#x


Nor is anyone denying your post above.

Except for the Feenyities who deny the power of Almighty God to convert and give His grace to whomever He desires, when He desires and how He desires.  
The Feenyities place their so-called enlightment above God and are drifting outside the Church; the Pope Eugene quote that they love to quote is now meant for them.  

Offline LM

Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2010, 02:25:37 PM »
Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus
Quote from: MyrnaM
Yes, I also believe God can reveal His truths to any atheist, pagan or other such false beliefs, at the last moments of their life.  

Unlike the Feeny group who put God in a box, and limit His Almighty power.  


No one here has denied that God is all-powerful, or that if He wanted to, He could simply snap His Fingers and teleport all of us to His Heavenly Abode.

The question here is not about "limiting" God's power. It's about believing God's promises to His Faithful.

Cases in the past where a Saint mentioned "death bed conversions" were cases where the dying man or woman was already a baptized Catholic but had fallen into unrepentant sin or disbelief. A few cases of baptized Protestants who towards the end accepted the Holy Church are also mentioned. There is absolutely no mention of people who were totally ignorant of the Church, of the Trinity, of Jesus, and even of God, who were given special graces in the last moments of their lives and were thus saved: NOT because God couldn't do it, but because that would make a mockery out of His Church and all that She has commanded Her Faithful to do in the past.

Just because something was taught in the 40's and 50's here in America or in Holland or Germany does not make it de fide.  The whole "Greatest Generation" and their spoiled rotten baby-boomer kids are what got us into this mess to begin with, what with their indifferentism and urge for acceptance into American society at all costs. President Kennedy's shameful speech to that Baptist Convention in Houston in 1960 is a good example.



I must say St Jude Thaddeus, your post here, and your prior one,  hit the nail on the head.


Offline gladius_veritatis

  • Supporter
Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2010, 02:45:55 PM »
Quote from: St Jude Thaddeus
The whole "Greatest Generation" and their spoiled rotten baby-boomer kids are what got us into this mess to begin with, what with their indifferentism and urge for acceptance into American society at all costs.


None of which affected St. Thomas or St. Alphonsus, just to name two men whose teachings destroy the 'strict-EENS' nonsense (which is merely a reaction to the errors of this time).

Yes, this is a time of excess.  We will not find the right road again by going to the other extreme.

Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2010, 03:48:08 PM »
Quote from: MyrnaM


Except for the Feenyities who deny the power of Almighty God to convert and give His grace to whomever He desires, when He desires and how He desires.  


Anyone who denies that God has that power, does not believe in an Almighty God. In that case, yes, they would be limiting (in their own minds) God's power.

Question to all forum members: Do you need to believe in Jesus to be saved?
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2010, 03:52:43 PM »
Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Yes, this is a time of excess.  We will not find the right road again by going to the other extreme.


Agreed.

Did Sts. Thomas and Alphonsus ever have to confront Universal Salvationists? Or Indifferentists?

At least in the days of St. Thomas, books were hand-printed and not widely read, so he would have assumed a certain level of intellect and orthodoxy in his readership. He probably didn't imagine that his words could be twisted around by modernists to mean that practically everyone was going to Heaven. Or by modern Americans trying to avoid confrontation at all costs with their non-Catholic friends, family members, and neighbors.