Author Topic: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth' (Read 7498 times)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #30 on:** August 23, 2017, 11:36:26 AM »

Quote from: An even Seven on August 23, 2017, 11:27:51 AM

It does not pin us in an impossible corner. Nowhere does is it Dogmatically taught that the people who were killed because of their professing Christianity before Baptism are saved. One must profess their belief and trust in Divine Providence. Leave everything up to His Holy Will.

Those who teach no salvation apart from water are indeed pinned in an impossible corner when confronted with martyrdom before baptism. They are forced to either be damned or deny Christ. This cannot be reasonably denied.

You pit the Church against the Church as if it was a dog chasing its tail. Acting as if the solemn magisterium infallibly teaches "conservative" truth and the UOM infallibly teaches liberal error. This is not the case and that should be obvious.

You do not trust the Church official liturgy which teaches these Saints were martyred and not baptized.

You do not trust the theologians, Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes.

There is no salvation outside the Church. Non-members can be saved within the Church.

I do pray that you gain the intellectual ability or honesty to grasp and accept this fact.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #31 on:** August 23, 2017, 11:40:54 AM »

Quote from: An even Seven on August 23, 2017, 11:30:28 AM

I understand it. The Dogma is NOT "No salvation by false religions". It is "No Salvation Outside the Church". If they are IN a false religion, they are NOT IN the true religion. I guess I don't understand the Dogma how you and the V2 sect understands it.

I don't understand it as Father Feeney and the Dimonds understand it.

You don't understand it how the theologians, Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Popes understand it. Nor how all Catholics who trust the aforementioned authorities understand it.

One who has supernatural faith and perfect charity is within the Church by desire i.e. shares in her inner bonds of unity (sanctifying grace) as Bellarmine puts it. That is the most important bond. As one can partake in her outer bonds of unity (baptized, profess the faith, subject to legitimate ecclesiastical authority) and be damned.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #32 on:** August 23, 2017, 11:50:51 AM »

Quote from: An even Seven on August 23, 2017, 11:46:25 AM

So what. That's not what the Dogma says.

Are we going by you (no salvation apart from water) or the theologians, Fathers, Saints, Doctors and Popes? (a non-member can be saved within the Church by desire).

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #33 on:** August 23, 2017, 11:55:55 AM »

Quote from: An even Seven on August 23, 2017, 11:53:34 AM

No we're not. We are forced to accept that our faults have led us to this point where we only just recently accepted the graces of God to believe His Revelation and act on it. If this is enough, then our Lord will send what is necessary for the reception of the Sacrament. If not, then we accept the fact that it was our own fault that we had not heretofore been Baptized. Just because we may be damned does not mean it is God's fault.

When baptism is impossible Our Lord can cleanse the soul without the use of water. Do you deny this?

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #34 on:** August 23, 2017, 11:56:59 AM »

Quote from: An even Seven on August 23, 2017, 11:54:17 AM

I understand it. The Dogma is NOT "No salvation by false religions". It is "No Salvation Outside the Church". If they are IN a false religion, they are NOT IN the true religion. I guess I don't understand the Dogma how you and the V2 sect understands it.

I don't understand it as Father Feeney and the Dimonds understand it.

You don't understand it how the theologians, Fathers, Doctors, Saints and Popes understand it. Nor how all Catholics who trust the aforementioned authorities understand it.

One who has supernatural faith and perfect charity is within the Church by desire i.e. shares in her inner bonds of unity (sanctifying grace) as Bellarmine puts it. That is the most important bond. As one can partake in her outer bonds of unity (baptized, profess the faith, subject to legitimate ecclesiastical authority) and be damned.

CathInfo.com

Author Topic: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth' (Read 7498 times)

Lover of Truth

Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'

Lover of Truth

Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'

Lover of Truth

Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'

Lover of Truth

Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'

Lover of Truth

Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'