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Author Topic: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'  (Read 3705 times)

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Offline Lover of Truth

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Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2017, 02:02:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on August 22, 2017, 01:58:30 PM
    Thinks the problem is the solution."Is there a 'worship man' emoti?"

    Maybe he'll make it his avatar to save time.
    I'm sorry you are so bitter and angry and need someone to take it out on.  Feel free to continue to assault me and I will not hold it against you.  Know my responses are intended for you to see things objectively, the truth on EENS and on the the lack of charity you show.  This is done either by giving you your own medicine or in other ways.  You seem past hope but so long as you endeavor to assault I will try to help you out of your sins.  Please do not neglect to pray to God for this effect.  May God's grace be with you.
    Logged
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline DZ PLEASE

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    • "Lord, have mercy."
    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #16 on: August 22, 2017, 02:30:33 PM »
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    • "Charity bat", a gift to all not-so-Crypto-Jєωs of "Temple beth Bergolio"

    sa "The Jєω screams as he strikes you"

    fade in piano, cue violins…
    Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 22, 2017, 02:02:19 PM
    I'm sorry you are so bitter and angry and need someone to take it out on.  Feel free to continue to assault me and I will not hold it against you.  Know my responses are intended for you to see things objectively, the truth on EENS and on the the lack of charity you show.  This is done either by giving you your own medicine or in other ways.  You seem past hope but so long as you endeavor to assault I will try to help you out of your sins.  Please do not neglect to pray to God for this effect.  May God's grace be with you.
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    "Lord, have mercy".

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #17 on: August 22, 2017, 02:35:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: DZ PLEASE on August 22, 2017, 02:30:33 PM
    "Charity bat", a gift to all not-so-Crypto-Jєωs of "Temple beth Bergolio"

    sa "The Jєω screams as he strikes you"

    fade in piano, cue violins…
    Thank you sir may I have another?
    Logged
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Catholictrue

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #18 on: August 22, 2017, 10:42:41 PM »
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    • The reaction of Lover of Heresy to my question is another very clear example of his bad will.  

    With regard to Mithandyland, your response, despite containing a number of paragraphs, doesn't answer the question.  It is vapid.  It veers off into other topics, and it contains numerous false statements and false arguments.  Many things could be written to expose it.  However, there is a simple way to demonstrate that neither you nor your methodology is Catholic.  Fr. Bernard Welp of the CMRI stated that he agreed with Fr. Denis Fahey that Jєωs who reject Jesus Christ can be in the state of grace and saved.  That's the position of the CMRI, etc.  That's what they believe.  So, Mithandyland, is their position heretical?  

    You can find the docuмentation for Welp's statement here: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/fr-bernard-welp-cmri/ Below are a few of the relevant quotes.

    FR. DENIS FAHEY TAUGHT THE HERESY THAT JєωS WHO REJECT CHRIST CAN BE IN THE STATE OF GRACE
    Quote
    Fr. Denis Fahey, The Kingship of Christ and the Conversion of the Jєωιѕн Nation (1953), p. 52: “The Jєωs, as a nation, are objectively aiming at giving society a direction which is in complete opposition to the order God wants.  It is possible that a member of the Jєωιѕн Nation, who rejects Our Lord, may have the supernatural life which God wishes to see in every soul, and so be good with the goodness God wants, but objectively, the direction he is seeking to give to the world is opposed to God and to that life, and therefore is not good.  If a Jєω who rejects our Lord is good in the way God demands, it is in spite of the movement in which he and his nation are engaged.”
    ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE TAUGHT THAT SOULS CAN BE SAVED IN FALSE RELIGIONS
    Quote
    Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Against the Heresies, p. 216: “Evidently, certain distinctions must be made.  Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.), but not by this religion.   There may be souls who, not knowing Our Lord, have by the grace of the good Lord, good interior dispositions, who submit to God…  But some of these persons make an act of love which implicitly is equivalent to baptism of desire.  It is uniquely by this means that they are able to be saved.”
    FR. BERNARD WELP OF THE CMRI 'CERTAINLY' AGREES WITH FAHEY

    To the question, do you agree with the statements made by Fr. Denis Fahey and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Fr. Bernard Welp of the CMRI responded on Nov. 16, 2016, by saying:
    Quote
    “Certainly.  As catholics we do not accept the false idea of universal salvation promoted at V II.  Souls cannot be saved outside the church but those who seek God receive baptism (thus become part of the church) of desire IF: 1- ignorance is invincible 2 they have supernatural faith 3 Supernatural charity.  I have answered your question…”
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    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #19 on: August 22, 2017, 11:29:13 PM »
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    • That has nothing at all to do with methodology.  
    .
    You want to run the Dimond checklist on me so you can get triggered and hit the reset button, go back to square one and wax sensationally about it. I know the tactics, you're pretty much all the same, and very predictable; chances are, your next reply will include something about me being oily like a heretic, or slippery and elusive, incapable of answering a simple question, and so on.  You're not the first, and probably not the last, person to develop a man crush on the sensational Dimond boys and parrot their tactics on the web.  You'll (hopefully!) grow out of it.
    .
    In either event, I'm quite content with what I wrote, and it IS a question of methodology (at its heart, anyway); if it has as many falsities as you claim, then it'll be no problem for you to overcome. 
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    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #20 on: August 23, 2017, 08:07:19 AM »
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    • Oh hi GJC.  Nice job self-fulfilling what I said would happen next. 

    Any luck finding that third place where people are asleep but not yet judged?  

    Double standardizing hypocrites. Failing to acknowledge or address the outright unorthodoxy of a previous argument you made, only to come back and "demand" answers to other questions. Not sure if you're truly that obtuse, or just drunk on your own false zeal. 

    I can hear the drumroll prepared for my answer. Greyhounds in the slip, straining at the start.  To paraphrase the bard, 'Cry God for Robert, Fred, and Fr. Feeney!'




    Logged
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #21 on: August 23, 2017, 08:24:03 AM »
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    • Quote from: Catholictrue on August 22, 2017, 10:42:41 PM
    The reaction of Lover of Heresy to my question is another very clear example of his bad will.  

    With regard to Mithandyland, your response, despite containing a number of paragraphs, doesn't answer the question.  It is vapid.  It veers off into other topics, and it contains numerous false statements and false arguments.  Many things could be written to expose it.  However, there is a simple way to demonstrate that neither you nor your methodology is Catholic.  Fr. Bernard Welp of the CMRI stated that he agreed with Fr. Denis Fahey that Jєωs who reject Jesus Christ can be in the state of grace and saved.  That's the position of the CMRI, etc.  That's what they believe.  So, Mithandyland, is their position heretical?  

    You can find the docuмentation for Welp's statement here: www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/catholicchurch/fr-bernard-welp-cmri/ Below are a few of the relevant quotes.

    FR. DENIS FAHEY TAUGHT THE HERESY THAT JєωS WHO REJECT CHRIST CAN BE IN THE STATE OF GRACE
    ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE TAUGHT THAT SOULS CAN BE SAVED IN FALSE RELIGIONS
    FR. BERNARD WELP OF THE CMRI 'CERTAINLY' AGREES WITH FAHEY

    To the question, do you agree with the statements made by Fr. Denis Fahey and Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, Fr. Bernard Welp of the CMRI responded on Nov. 16, 2016, by saying:
    Thank you for providing these excellent sources.  Father Fahey was cosidered and "αnтι-ѕємιтє" by the Southern Poverty Law Center.   
    Another theologian that the Feeneyites have to disparage.  When will the Feeneyites realize that condemning all the Catholic authorities of heresy reeks of heresy itself.  
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #22 on: August 23, 2017, 08:27:16 AM »
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    • Quote from: Mithrandylan on August 23, 2017, 08:07:19 AM
    Oh hi GJC.  Nice job self-fulfilling what I said would happen next.

    Any luck finding that third place where people are asleep but not yet judged?  

    Double standardizing hypocrites. Failing to acknowledge or address the outright unorthodoxy of a previous argument you made, only to come back and "demand" answers to other questions. Not sure if you're truly that obtuse, or just drunk on your own false zeal.

    I can hear the drumroll prepared for my answer. Greyhounds in the slip, straining at the start.  To paraphrase the bard, 'Cry God for Robert, Fred, and Fr. Feeney!'
    Yeah.  It is sad that we have to keep singing out the ABC basics to undo the damage the Feeneyites perpetuate on a Catholic blog.  The world would be better off without them.  But God's permissive will alas.  He'll bring good out of it.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #23 on: August 23, 2017, 10:57:25 AM »
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    • If confronted with the choice of martyrdom before being baptized would you deny Christ so you could get baptized or get martyred and "go to Hell"?
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #24 on: August 23, 2017, 11:18:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: Catholictrue on August 22, 2017, 10:42:41 PM



    ARCHBISHOP MARCEL LEFEBVRE TAUGHT THAT SOULS CAN BE SAVED IN FALSE RELIGIONS

    The above comment is imprecise. What the Archbishop actually said (which you later did acknowledge in your post) is that..."Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) but not by this religion."
    I think that the distinction needs to be made. The Archbishop did not mean to say that souls can be saved a by any particular religion other than Catholicism.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #25 on: August 23, 2017, 11:19:54 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on August 23, 2017, 11:18:24 AM
    The above comment is imprecise. What the Archbishop actually said (which you later did acknowledge in your post) is that..."Souls can be saved in a religion other than the Catholic religion (Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, etc.) but not by this religion."
    I think that the distinction needs to be made. The Archbishop did not mean to say that souls can be saved a by any particular religion other than Catholicism.
    Exactly correct.  He know more than the feeneyite bloggers here.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #26 on: August 23, 2017, 11:23:13 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on August 23, 2017, 11:19:13 AM
    I would not deny Christ and assent to being Martyred, knowing that if the Lord saw fit, He would send me the means to be Baptized before death.
    Thank you for answering the question.  Feeneyism pins you in an impossible corner but understanding EENS as the Church does does not. 
     
    According to the Church's official liturgy and honor of Saints, He did not see fit but allowed them to be washed in their own blood and they were taken immediately to Heaven.

    There should be no problem accepting this.

    Universal Salvationism has cause an over reaction against that terribly heresy into an equal and opposite heresy.  Admittedly if I had to chose one heresy or the other I would chose feeneyism.  But I do not have to chose between the two.
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #27 on: August 23, 2017, 11:23:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: Lover of Truth on August 23, 2017, 11:19:54 AM
    Exactly correct.  He know more than the feeneyite bloggers here.
    Yes, I believe he knew more than any of us here, actually. Or at least me, that's for sure. He was not infallible of course, but I have to take his teaching into consideration, even though it is considered controversial among trads.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #28 on: August 23, 2017, 11:27:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on August 23, 2017, 11:24:06 AM
    The distinction is clear. You even quoted it in your post. He said they can be saved IN a religion other than the Catholic Religion. Which religion they are actually saved By matters not, the heresy is already taught. The terms "false religions" and "religion other that the Catholic religion" are synonymous because all non-Catholic religions are false. Lefebvre is saying they are saved IN non-Catholic religions.
    You do not understand or do not want to understand.  

    There is a difference between one who is in a false religion in the exterior that is within the Church's inner bonds if unity i.e. sanctifying grace.

    And

    One who is saved by a false religion.

    Lefebvre did not claim one can be saved by a false religion.  Sticking perfectly well with the infallible truths of EENS and BOD.  These infallible truths do not contradict one another but compliment one another keeping God's Justice and Mercy in tact as it were.  Amen?
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    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Question for the so-called 'Lover of Truth'
    « Reply #29 on: August 23, 2017, 11:32:46 AM »
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    • Quote from: An even Seven on August 23, 2017, 11:24:06 AM
    The distinction is clear. You even quoted it in your post. He said they can be saved IN a religion other than the Catholic Religion. Which religion they are actually saved By matters not, the heresy is already taught. The terms "false religions" and "religion other that the Catholic religion" are synonymous because all non-Catholic religions are false. Lefebvre is saying they are saved IN non-Catholic religions.

    In a religion, but NOT BY that religion.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29
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