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Author Topic: Priests who believe EENS  (Read 27125 times)

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Offline hgodwinson

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Re: Priests who believe EENS
« Reply #135 on: June 06, 2025, 08:27:09 PM »
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  • You know this how exactly?
    He was “ordained” via the Palmarians

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #136 on: June 06, 2025, 08:39:33 PM »
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  • Modernists like Rahner and Jurgens would have also loved nothing more than disseminating the idea that the Church had long admitted to contradictory teachings and substantial changes in doctrine, thereby paving the way for more.  I wouldn’t trust anything they said about Church teachings or history.

    Rahner would have loved nothing more than to find evidence in the Church Fathers in favor of salvation for non-Catholics but he had the intellectual honest to admit that there was none ... unlike modern Trads who deny this reality.  I've read voluminously in the Church Fathers myself, and Rahner's assessment is quite accurate ... and in fact Catholic Patristics scholars agree.

    He's also 100% correct that the biggest change in Vatican II was the shift regarding EENS.

    So nice tray gaslighting against the reality simply by trying to smear Rahner.  Contradict what he has to say, blowhard.


    Offline IllyricumSacrum

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #137 on: June 06, 2025, 08:43:10 PM »
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  • He was “ordained” via the Palmarians
    Right. He was ordained by a Thuc-line bishop who left the Palmarians early on. 
    Let me rephrase the question: what makes you think +Webster was doubtful?

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #138 on: June 06, 2025, 08:43:47 PM »
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  • He was “ordained” via the Palmarians

    Ridiculous ... and idiotic.  +Thuc clearly validly ordained and consecrated those at Palmar ... meeting even Bishop Kelly's made-up and fake "criteria" for validity, namely that there be competent witnesses, as +Thuc was assisted by SSPX seminary professor, along with a couple pre-V2 priests (who then were consecrated by +Thuc on the occasion).

    Without getting into any detail your moronic insertion of "ordained" within quotes and mindless hurling of the term "Palmarians" around is ridiculous.

    Only real question surrounds the ordination of Terrasson to the priesthood (whether he had been validly ordained), but then someone produced a conditional ordination certificate that looked legitimate.

    You need to stop blabbering and casing aspersions on people's Holy Orders obviously without knowing a darned thing about it.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #139 on: June 06, 2025, 08:46:40 PM »
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  • Right. He was ordained by a Thuc-line bishop who left the Palmarians early on.
    Let me rephrase the question: what makes you think +Webster was doubtful?

    People like this have no actual reasons.

    Thuc's ordinations and consecrations at Palmar were certainly valid, and Thuc's consecrations of Guerard des Lauriers and Carmona/Zamora were also clearly valid.

    Webster descends from those two lines, and the only quesition was that there was no record of Terrasson's having been conditionally ordained (having come from doubtful Gallican orders) ... and yet someone here once produced a copy of the ordination certificate for Terrasson that looked quite legitimate.  That is the only possible room for positive doubt in Webster's line.

    Even if he had never left the Palmarians, that would have nothing to do with his validity ... unless one wishes to revive one of the earliest heresies condemned in the Church, that non-Catholics and/or heretics/schismatics cannot confect valid Sacraments.


    Offline IllyricumSacrum

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #140 on: June 06, 2025, 08:53:56 PM »
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  • People like this have no actual reasons.

    Thuc's ordinations and consecrations at Palmar were certainly valid, and Thuc's consecrations of Guerard des Lauriers and Carmona/Zamora were also clearly valid.

    Webster descends from those two lines, and the only quesition was that there was no record of Terrasson's having been conditionally ordained (having come from doubtful Gallican orders) ... and yet someone here once produced a copy of the ordination certificate for Terrasson that looked quite legitimate.  That is the only possible room for positive doubt in Webster's line.

    Even if he had never left the Palmarians, that would have nothing to do with his validity ... unless one wishes to revive one of the earliest heresies condemned in the Church, that non-Catholics and/or heretics/schismatics cannot confect valid Sacraments.
    Slupski conditionally ordained Webster before consecration, leaving no doubt. Also, Thuc did the ordinations and consecrations because Lefebvre vouched for Palmar.  

    Offline hgodwinson

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #141 on: June 06, 2025, 09:28:06 PM »
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  • Ridiculous ... and idiotic.  +Thuc clearly validly ordained and consecrated those at Palmar ... meeting even Bishop Kelly's made-up and fake "criteria" for validity, namely that there be competent witnesses, as +Thuc was assisted by SSPX seminary professor, along with a couple pre-V2 priests (who then were consecrated by +Thuc on the occasion).

    Without getting into any detail your moronic insertion of "ordained" within quotes and mindless hurling of the term "Palmarians" around is ridiculous.

    Only real question surrounds the ordination of Terrasson to the priesthood (whether he had been validly ordained), but then someone produced a conditional ordination certificate that looked legitimate.

    You need to stop blabbering and casing aspersions on people's Holy Orders obviously without knowing a darned thing about it.
    I have no issue with the Thuc orders. The palmarians however are a false religion that has no public accountability and take no issue in meddling in sacred tradition. Case in point: they changed both Holy Scripture and the Holy Mass. admittedly, I am unaware if they changed the form of ordination and consecration however due to what I just mentioned, I would not put it past them. Do you trust that these men (who iirc say Mary is present in the Eucharist) have not meddled in the essential form. Even is so, would it not be prudent to avoid men with orders from them? 

    Offline hgodwinson

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #142 on: June 06, 2025, 09:31:01 PM »
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  • Slupski conditionally ordained Webster before consecration, leaving no doubt. Also, Thuc did the ordinations and consecrations because Lefebvre vouched for Palmar. 
    Oh, I was unaware. Who does Slupski get his orders from?


    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #143 on: June 06, 2025, 10:06:50 PM »
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  • +Sulpski is dead but he came from +McKenna, I think.  

    Offline hgodwinson

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #144 on: June 06, 2025, 11:44:45 PM »
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  • +Sulpski is dead but he came from +McKenna, I think. 
    Okay then if Webster was consecrated and conditionally ordained by someone from +McKenna’s line then he is a valid Bishop. 

    Offline songbird

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #145 on: June 07, 2025, 03:15:58 PM »
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  • Sulpiski Ordained married men.  Hm, and how is that!


    Offline Marcellinus

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    Re: Priests who believe EENS
    « Reply #146 on: Yesterday at 05:44:13 PM »
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  • Okay then if Webster was consecrated and conditionally ordained by someone from +McKenna’s line then he is a valid Bishop.
    I wouldn’t trust +Slupski consecrations. 

    He completely destroys the essential from here. 

    https://youtu.be/cn5vG8-d-B8?si=CgAzmghd5W1VMWNX