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Author Topic: Possibly falling into despair depression  (Read 29777 times)

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Online Stubborn

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Possibly falling into despair depression
« Reply #105 on: July 27, 2016, 07:22:13 AM »
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  • Quote from: Arvinger
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: tdrev123
    I think now is the time for Matthew to ban LoT (E), he essentially told someone not to post the athanasian creed and he denies it himself clearly.  He is not Catholic.


    Show me where I denied it Alebard.  


    Right here:

    Quote from: Lover of Truth

    Quote from: Arvinger
    Only true Catholics have any chance to be saved. Those who die as non-Catholics cannot be saved.


    That would be true were it not false.


    By declaring that non-Catholics can be saved you directly deny the Athanasian Creed which teaches (just like all the Popes and Magisterium of the Church) that only Catholics can be saved and that no one can be saved unless he holds the Catholic faith.


    It is amazing how he keeps posting over and over - and over again, as you say, that the Athanasian Creed and the dogma is false, aka "That would be true were it not false." all the while promoting his errors as dogma.  

    He is one of the many willing victims of the false teachings of those 20th century theologians which helped pave the way for today's crisis as he spams up the place trying to convert whoever he can as he posts error as truth and truth as error.  



    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #106 on: July 27, 2016, 09:54:57 AM »
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  • At best one could argue that there are some who are not materially Catholic while being formally Catholic.  While there are problems with that position, to state categorically that non-Catholics can be saved is heresy.

    Similarly, to state that people can be saved without or apart from the Sacrament of Baptism is heresy.  At best one could argue that people can receive the Sacrament in voto and that the Sacrament, operating through the votum, remains the instrumental cause of justification quasi-ex-opere-operato, vs. the dispositions meriting salvation ex opere operantis (Pelagian heresy).


    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #107 on: July 27, 2016, 10:39:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: Arvinger
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: tdrev123
    I think now is the time for Matthew to ban LoT (E), he essentially told someone not to post the athanasian creed and he denies it himself clearly.  He is not Catholic.


    Show me where I denied it Alebard.  


    Right here:

    Quote from: Lover of Truth

    Quote from: Arvinger
    Only true Catholics have any chance to be saved. Those who die as non-Catholics cannot be saved.


    That would be true were it not false.


    By declaring that non-Catholics can be saved you directly deny the Athanasian Creed which teaches (just like all the Popes and Magisterium of the Church) that only Catholics can be saved and that no one can be saved unless he holds the Catholic faith.


    I do not deny it.  I accept all the Church teaches not pitting creed against Pope as you do.
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline Arvinger

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    « Reply #108 on: July 27, 2016, 12:00:18 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: Arvinger
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Quote from: tdrev123
    I think now is the time for Matthew to ban LoT (E), he essentially told someone not to post the athanasian creed and he denies it himself clearly.  He is not Catholic.


    Show me where I denied it Alebard.  


    Right here:

    Quote from: Lover of Truth

    Quote from: Arvinger
    Only true Catholics have any chance to be saved. Those who die as non-Catholics cannot be saved.


    That would be true were it not false.


    By declaring that non-Catholics can be saved you directly deny the Athanasian Creed which teaches (just like all the Popes and Magisterium of the Church) that only Catholics can be saved and that no one can be saved unless he holds the Catholic faith.


    I do not deny it.  I accept all the Church teaches not pitting creed against Pope as you do.


    Creed against which Pope? No Pope taught that non-Catholics can be saved.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #109 on: July 27, 2016, 12:25:28 PM »
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  • You think that the catechisms, theologians, doctors, fathers, saints and popes contradict the creed when they do not.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Arvinger

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    « Reply #110 on: July 27, 2016, 12:48:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    You think that the catechisms, theologians, doctors, fathers, saints and popes contradict the creed when they do not.  


    Not at all, Thomistic BoD does not contradict absolute necessity of Catholic faith for salvation. No Pope taught that non-Catholics can be saved - show me one authoritative quotation, show anything substantial beyond your empty and false accusation.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #111 on: July 27, 2016, 12:57:25 PM »
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  • Quote from: Arvinger
    Quote from: Lover of Truth
    You think that the catechisms, theologians, doctors, fathers, saints and popes contradict the creed when they do not.  


    Not at all, Thomistic BoD does not contradict absolute necessity of Catholic faith for salvation. No Pope taught that non-Catholics can be saved - show me one authoritative quotation, show anything substantial beyond your empty and false accusation.


    He just parrots this same false accusation over and over.  He hides behind quotes on BoD proper, pretending that they promote his religious indifferentism, heretical rejection of EENS, heretical rejection of the necessity of the Sacraments for salvation, Pelagianism, and heretical rejection of the necessity of Catholic faith for salvation.  But none of these aforementioned sources back up his heresies, just classical/Thomistic BoD.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #112 on: July 27, 2016, 01:03:50 PM »
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  • Don't cry Ladislaus.  Your ignorance must be inculpable otherwise you would be outside the Church through your heresies and additionally damnable because you spread them.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church


    Offline Ladislaus

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    « Reply #113 on: July 27, 2016, 01:23:42 PM »
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  • Quote from: Lover of Truth
    Don't cry Ladislaus.  Your ignorance must be inculpable otherwise you would be outside the Church through your heresies and additionally damnable because you spread them.  


    Heresy has caused you to completely lose your sanity.

    Offline Lover of Truth

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    « Reply #114 on: July 27, 2016, 01:40:18 PM »
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  • The irony.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline AnthonyPadua

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    Re: Possibly falling into despair depression
    « Reply #115 on: February 16, 2025, 08:59:17 PM »
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  • I don't want you to be outside the Church at the moment of death for rejecting Church teaching and teaching errors.
    This is called projection.


    This started off as a good thread, very useful to me as I sometimes struggle with a similar thing. That nearly everyone is going to hell and there is very little I can do about it.

    From my point of view, those who could realistically be saved.
    - validly baptised children who have yet to reach the age of reason (they are considered Catholic as baptism is the sacrament of faith)
    - material heretics/schismatics NO/indulters/trads (their belief is based on what they consider to be what the Catholic Church teaches even if they are actually wrong, i think people in this group has the least possibility of being saved but since there is a distinction between formal motive then maybe they have a chance?)
    - Catholics who aren't material heretics/schismatics (realistically most trads have some material heresy since we all live in the modern world)

    Not sure if there is any other groups to consider. Baptised children have the greatest hope of going to heaven (guaranteed before the age of reason), good Catholics come next, then Catholics with 'material' issues.

    Everyone else will be damned as there is no salvation outside the Church. As the Church is the mystical Body of Christ, which as per Pope Pius 12th teaches is those who are "baptised and profess the true faith"


    Offline Cera

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    Re: Possibly falling into despair depression
    « Reply #116 on: February 17, 2025, 03:19:00 PM »
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  • Right now I am unemployed, but this desire could get me fired in the workplace. For example, lets say I am in the corporate world and my boss is a contracepting protestant heretic like the majority of america. What if I told him one day, "hey Boss, I like you as a person but I gotta tell you something for your own good: you are in a false religion and you are on the road to hell."

    If I said that I would get fired ASAP and I could never keep a job in this economy. So what am I supposed to do, keep my mouth shut and hide from the truth??
    Yes. Keep your mouth shut unless you are asked to do something immoral.
     There is a time and place for everything.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Possibly falling into despair depression
    « Reply #117 on: February 17, 2025, 03:20:16 PM »
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  • You doubt a dogma of the Church?
    There's nothing wrong with being honest about one's struggle.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Possibly falling into despair depression
    « Reply #118 on: February 17, 2025, 03:23:39 PM »
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  • You doubt a dogma of the Church?

    Id have to see it for myself before coming to any conclusions.

    So you can't state that you adhere with docility to all Dogmas of the Catholic Church?

    You must see them all first, to decide for yourself if they are true?
    God created us as rational beings and gave us a Catholic church that is perfectly rational.
    Blind acceptance belongs to cults, not to the One True Church.
    The OP is struggling and God bless him for being honest.
    I pray he will find a good Trad priest.
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    Offline Cera

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    Re: Possibly falling into despair depression
    « Reply #119 on: February 17, 2025, 03:34:13 PM »
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  •  I just purchased the MHFM complete $20 package with all their videos and books. One of the books is called "Outside The Catholic Church There is Absolutely No Salvation."

    He makes some very interesting points. But yet I  have talked to traditonal clergy and they disagree with MFHM so I really do not know who to believe.
    Dimond Brothers are NOT religious brothers, nor do they have a monastary.

    Canon Law: The Dimond brothers are not monks and their monastery is no monastery (9-29-16)

    Many who read what is available on this site comment that while they do not agree with the position held by Michael and Peter Dimond, operators of what is known as Most Holy Family Monastery (MHFM), they often visit their site because these purported “monks” have good information. A “position,” i.e., an allowable opinion by Church standards would be one thing. But here we are dealing with heresy, and heresy condemned as such by Pope Pius XII, (Feeneyism). It is not “okay” to visit the sites of known heretics, even if they present some things that are interesting or even unique, lest we cooperate in their heresy. While sometimes it is necessary to the truth to include some of these sites in research pieces, they should always be disavowed (and are on this site) and never recommended.

    Belloc’s formula for establishing the existence of heresy
    Heretics are very clever. They disguise their errors by carefully weaving them into a fabric consisting mainly of truthful statements, the better to lure them in, and this is how they deceive the unwary. In the Introduction to his work, The Great Heresies, (1920s) the respected Catholic historian Hilaire Belloc provides the following components of heretical perversity. “Heresy means…the warping of a system by ‘exception’: by ‘picking out’ one part of the structure and implies that the scheme is marred by taking away one part of it, denying one part of it, and either leaving the void unfilled or filling it with some new affirmation.
    “The denial of a scheme wholesale is not heresy, and has not the creative power of a heresy. It is of the essence of heresy that it leaves standing a great part of the structure it attacks. It is the taking away from the moral scheme by which we have lived of a particular part, the denial of that part and the attempt to replace it by an innovation.”

    It is very tempting, when one sees that “a great part of it” is right, to then be convinced that a few little errors may not matter and these folks are not so bad after all, just misguided. But that would be a grave error in judgment. Like all Traditionalists, MHFM has “plucked” the papacy from their midst and have denied not only the papacy but also the dogma of baptism of blood and desire, following the heretic Leonard Feeney. They then pose the innovation by setting themselves up as the true authority. According to Wikipedia, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Holy_Family_Monastery):

    “Most Holy Family Monastery was founded in 1967, in Berlin, New Jersey, by a self-proclaimed Benedictine monk named Joseph Natale (1933-1995), originally as a community for handicapped men. Natale entered the Benedictine Archabbey in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, in 1960 as a lay postulant, but left less than a year later to start his own Holy Family Monastery. According to an archivist of the Saint Vincent Archabbey in Latrobe, Natale left before taking vows; he never actually became a Benedictine monk.

    “Natale died in 1995, whereupon Michael Dimond (born Frederick Dimond), who joined in 1992 at the age of 19 after converting to Catholicism four years earlier was elected the Superior. Soon after, he relocated to Granger, New York (close to Fillmore, New York), where Natale owned more than 90 acres (36 ha) of donated land.”
    Canon Law contradicts MHFM and their followers

    https://www.betrayedcatholics.com/canon-law-the-dimond-brothers-are-not-monks-and-their-monastery-is-no-monastery-9-29-16/



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