Author Topic: Possibly falling into despair depression (Read 15684 times)

Stubborn · « **Reply #60 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:53:53 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

No Salvation Apart From Water is a new dogma Feeney invented and the disobedient prelate is the cause of great chaos even until this day.

Such a nitwit as you.

What chaos is caused by preaching that the sacraments are absolutely necessary for salvation? What is the danger of preaching that outside the Church there is no salvation? You act like it's a heresy to preach the Catholic faith.

So spill the beans already and have it over with.

What chaos is caused by preaching that the sacraments are absolutely necessary for salvation? What is the danger of preaching that outside the Church there is no salvation? Who gets scandalized and how?

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #61 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:55:20 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I feel similar to how the OP felt. I think nearly everyone I know is going to hell and when I think about it it makes me sad. I was going to make a longer post with details of how I felt and believed but after I typed it I thought it would cause controversy so I decided not to post it.

It is quite sad. Hopefully in some instances the "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." will come into play.

Hopefully there are some sincere people out their with a supernatural Faith who really will to do God's will and love Him more than anything else. Hopefully some people who commit mortal sins in the objective realm are ignorant of this fact through no fault of their own.

Matto · « **Reply #62 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:59:47 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

It is quite sad. Hopefully in some instances the "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." will come into play.

Hopefully there are some sincere people out their with a supernatural Faith who really will to do God's will and love Him more than anything else. Hopefully some people who commit mortal sins in the objective realm are ignorant of this fact through no fault of their own.

One thing I do is count the number of traditional Catholics in my city and think, that is the amount of people in my city who have a good chance to be saved. So in my city there are maybe a thousand traditional Catholics (based on Mass attendance) so that means about one in every five thousand people or so has a good chance to be saved.

(Not counting those who die before the use of reason)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #63 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:17:51 PM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: Lover of Truth

It is quite sad. Hopefully in some instances the "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." will come into play.

Hopefully there are some sincere people out their with a supernatural Faith who really will to do God's will and love Him more than anything else. Hopefully some people who commit mortal sins in the objective realm are ignorant of this fact through no fault of their own.

One thing I do is count the number of traditional Catholics in my city and think, that is the amount of people in my city who have a good chance to be saved. So in my city there are maybe a thousand traditional Catholics (based on Mass attendance) so that means about one in every five thousand people or so has a good chance to be saved.

(Not counting those who die before the use of reason)

Right. Only true Catholics have a good chance to be saved and many of us are in trouble. If many of us saw our souls as God sees them we might die of fright. It is a scary thing to consider.

Many people also know when they commit a mortal sin even if in their mind they think of it as "doing something wrong". They feel the guilt pang the first time they do it as God has written the law on our hearts. Many people claim to love our Lord but do not and will not be saved.

Sadly there are some who partake of the outer bonds of dis-unity with heretical Church's whose lives appear to put some traditional Catholics to shame whether they partake of the inner bonds of unity within the Mystical Body of Christ or not. Despite the fact that they could be within the Church by desire because of a supernatural Faith and perfect charity it appears to be far more likely, generally speaking that many or most of them could in regards to their apparent charity towards one another have only a natural charity not rooted in the love of God above all things.

There are others who grew up Catholic and by all appearances have rejected the Faith such as Mother Theresa and all the false Popes and they are in much worse shape than those, who through no fault of their own, never had the Faith to begin with. It is said to think that by all appearances that Mother Theresa is damned as in the natural realm she put most, if not all to us to shame in regards to all the natural good she did. But that is the reality of it.

Matto · « **Reply #64 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:36:14 PM »

I should say, lest some think I am pessimistic, that I do beleive God will save some who are not traditional Catholics by conversion and repentance but I think this would be extraordinary and that those so saved are not saved in the normal way as traditional Catholics would be. So they do not have a good chance of being saved though they might get "lucky."

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #65 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:49:40 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I should say, lest some think I am pessimistic, that I do beleive God will save some who are not traditional Catholics by conversion and repentance but I think this would be extraordinary and that those so saved are not saved in the normal way as traditional Catholics would be. So they do not have a good chance of being saved though they might get "lucky."

As Pius XII said they "cannot be secure about their salvation". This is because they do not have an infallible Church guiding them in truth or the Sacraments or the disciplinary guide of Catholic Church to help them along the way of salvation. Those within the Church by an effective desire may lose the Faith and or die in a state of Mortal sin.

Even members within the Church are without a visible shepherd having to depend on themselves or the traditional clergy in regards to controversial issues (settled - EENS/BOD and unsettled (Pope, una cuм etc.). Some do not have access to the Sacraments or deprive themselves of them because of the current state of the Church.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #66 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:48:19 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I should say, lest some think I am pessimistic, that I do beleive God will save some who are not traditional Catholics by conversion and repentance but I think this would be extraordinary and that those so saved are not saved in the normal way as traditional Catholics would be. So they do not have a good chance of being saved though they might get "lucky."

I'm actually more optimistic. I am convinced that large numbers of people in the Novus Ordo establishment still formally possess the Catholic faith ... even if they are in material error about some things due to the Vatican II confusion. By large numbers, I don't mean a large percentage ... perhaps 10% or so. But those are huge numbers compared to the total number of Traditional Catholics out there.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #67 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:50:57 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

As Pius XII said they "cannot be secure about their salvation".

Stop spewing this garbage every chance you have. Pius XII did not thereby mean that they had any chance of salvation IN THEIR CURRENT STATE. Outside the Church, there is "ABSOLUTELY NO" salvation, not just a lower likelihood.

Matto · « **Reply #68 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:57:54 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

I'm actually more optimistic. I am convinced that large numbers of people in the Novus Ordo establishment still formally possess the Catholic faith ... even if they are in material error about some things due to the Vatican II confusion. By large numbers, I don't mean a large percentage ... perhaps 10% or so. But those are huge numbers compared to the total number of Traditional Catholics out there.

I hope you are right. If you are and ten percent of the Novus Ordo followers still have the faith, then there are a hundred million people with the faith. That would be wonderful.

Arvinger · « **Reply #69 on:** July 25, 2016, 03:32:48 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Right. Only true Catholics have a good chance to be saved and many of us are in trouble.

Only true Catholics have any chance to be saved. Those who die as non-Catholics cannot be saved.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #70 on:** July 26, 2016, 05:11:53 AM »

Quote from: Matto

I should say, lest some think I am pessimistic, that I do beleive God will save some who are not traditional Catholics by conversion and repentance but I think this would be extraordinary and that those so saved are not saved in the normal way as traditional Catholics would be. So they do not have a good chance of being saved though they might get "lucky."

Someone is down-thumbing everyone that does not agree with 40's invented novelty so I gave you an upthumb.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #71 on:** July 26, 2016, 05:13:06 AM »

Quote from: Arvinger

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Right. Only true Catholics have a good chance to be saved and many of us are in trouble.

Only true Catholics have any chance to be saved. Those who die as non-Catholics cannot be saved.

That would be true were it not false.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #72 on:** July 26, 2016, 05:15:33 AM »

Quote from: Matto

Quote from: Ladislaus
I'm actually more optimistic. I am convinced that large numbers of people in the Novus Ordo establishment still formally possess the Catholic faith ... even if they are in material error about some things due to the Vatican II confusion. By large numbers, I don't mean a large percentage ... perhaps 10% or so. But those are huge numbers compared to the total number of Traditional Catholics out there.

I hope you are right. If you are and ten percent of the Novus Ordo followers still have the faith, then there are a hundred million people with the faith. That would be wonderful.

Yes with the increase of confusion there is an increase of mercy. But there is still a lot of willful blindness out there along with legitimate ignorance. So many stay in the NO for convenience and will not look at tradition for fear of having to change. Others commit sins of fornication and will not look for the truth for fear of having to change. These will be damned.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #73 on:** July 26, 2016, 08:59:42 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Quote from: Arvinger
Quote from: Lover of Truth

Right. Only true Catholics have a good chance to be saved and many of us are in trouble.

Only true Catholics have any chance to be saved. Those who die as non-Catholics cannot be saved.

That would be true were it not false.

Blatant heretical denial of EENS. It doesn't get any clearer than that.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #74 on:** July 26, 2016, 09:01:18 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Yes with the increase of confusion there is an increase of mercy.

It's not about mercy. It's about the fact that one can have formal Catholic faith while still being in material error.