Author Topic: Possibly falling into despair depression (Read 36516 times)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #65 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:49:40 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I should say, lest some think I am pessimistic, that I do beleive God will save some who are not traditional Catholics by conversion and repentance but I think this would be extraordinary and that those so saved are not saved in the normal way as traditional Catholics would be. So they do not have a good chance of being saved though they might get "lucky."

As Pius XII said they "cannot be secure about their salvation". This is because they do not have an infallible Church guiding them in truth or the Sacraments or the disciplinary guide of Catholic Church to help them along the way of salvation. Those within the Church by an effective desire may lose the Faith and or die in a state of Mortal sin.

Even members within the Church are without a visible shepherd having to depend on themselves or the traditional clergy in regards to controversial issues (settled - EENS/BOD and unsettled (Pope, una cuм etc.). Some do not have access to the Sacraments or deprive themselves of them because of the current state of the Church.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #66 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:48:19 PM »

Quote from: Matto

I should say, lest some think I am pessimistic, that I do beleive God will save some who are not traditional Catholics by conversion and repentance but I think this would be extraordinary and that those so saved are not saved in the normal way as traditional Catholics would be. So they do not have a good chance of being saved though they might get "lucky."

I'm actually more optimistic. I am convinced that large numbers of people in the Novus Ordo establishment still formally possess the Catholic faith ... even if they are in material error about some things due to the Vatican II confusion. By large numbers, I don't mean a large percentage ... perhaps 10% or so. But those are huge numbers compared to the total number of Traditional Catholics out there.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #67 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:50:57 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

As Pius XII said they "cannot be secure about their salvation".

Stop spewing this garbage every chance you have. Pius XII did not thereby mean that they had any chance of salvation IN THEIR CURRENT STATE. Outside the Church, there is "ABSOLUTELY NO" salvation, not just a lower likelihood.

Matto · « **Reply #68 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:57:54 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

I'm actually more optimistic. I am convinced that large numbers of people in the Novus Ordo establishment still formally possess the Catholic faith ... even if they are in material error about some things due to the Vatican II confusion. By large numbers, I don't mean a large percentage ... perhaps 10% or so. But those are huge numbers compared to the total number of Traditional Catholics out there.

I hope you are right. If you are and ten percent of the Novus Ordo followers still have the faith, then there are a hundred million people with the faith. That would be wonderful.

Arvinger · « **Reply #69 on:** July 25, 2016, 03:32:48 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Right. Only true Catholics have a good chance to be saved and many of us are in trouble.

Only true Catholics have any chance to be saved. Those who die as non-Catholics cannot be saved.