Author Topic: Possibly falling into despair depression (Read 15670 times)

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #45 on:** July 25, 2016, 09:43:51 AM »

Give me some substance instead of what you prefer to believe.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #46 on:** July 25, 2016, 09:45:07 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Give me some substance instead of what you prefer to believe.

People have quoted Father Feeney himself on this subject dozens of times, you lying reprobate.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #47 on:** July 25, 2016, 09:53:04 AM »

Feeney taught the novel teaching that their is no salvation apart from water.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #48 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:27:18 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Feeney taught the novel teaching that their is no salvation apart from water.

I'm not talking about that. Nice diversion tactic ... as usual for you. I'm talking about your slander that Father Feeney says that people in a state of grace can go to hell.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #49 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:28:39 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Feeney taught the novel teaching that their is no salvation apart from water.

And you call the dogma of Trent a "novel teaching". Your audacious depravity knows no bounds.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #50 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:37:38 AM »

You put words in my mouth and call me names again.

Ladislaus · « **Reply #51 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:38:49 AM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Feeney puts people who have a supernatural Faith and are not guilty of mortal sin in Hell.

Arvinger · « **Reply #52 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:39:18 AM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

This isn't even about "Feeneyism" per se. OP described people committing mortal sin. Yes, they would be lost if they died in that state. Yes, >90% of all the people in the world right now are likely not in a state of grace. That has absolutely nothing to do with Father Feeney. Nor does the fact that Father Feeney had a "narrow" view of EENS change the fact that these people are in a state of mortal sin. Stop blaming every darn thing in the world on Father Feeney.

OP and several other posters on this thread reveal once again that EENS-rejection comes from a place of emotion rather than from theology. Yes, it's very sad that fornicators go to hell (if they don't repent). But are we to doubt that now as well just because it's sad?

Very well said, it is a red herring to direct this thread to the topic of Fr Feeney - some of our forum member seem to have some sort of obsession about him. The only thing I would disagree is that the OP does not reject EENS, he clearly holds (or held to, its been 5 years) to strict EENS, he just struggled with the thought that this means that majority of people alive are on the way to hell.

Whether one is a "Feeneyite", "BoDer-for-catechumens" or "Cushingite", it has to be recognized that very few people these days are in the state of grace. Majority are unbelievers (by definition cannot be in the state of grace), heretics or lapsed Catholics.

I honestly sympathize with the OP - I also struggle with these thoughts, and I hold to EENS. However, he said nothing about prayer, which I think is highly underestimated these days, even among faithful Catholics. Yes, you can't evangelize everyone, but you can pray for many people who otherwie you can't reach. Our Lady of Fatima said that many souls go to hell because no one prays for them. Sacred Scripture is filled with passages saying about power of prayer, just to quote one out of many:

James 5:16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

Do your best to share the Catholic faith with other people, and pray for those you can't reach. Not only for family, friends and relatives, but everyone you can think of. Pray for the strangers who pass you by at the street, if you are on a bus say a prayer for other passangers and bus driver, if you are watching a soccer game, say a prayer for the players and fans, etc. etc. We never know who will be saved due to these prayers, for some they might be crucial, especially in this pagan world where the Gospel is hardly being preached.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #53 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:41:01 AM »

Should we really debate whether people who die guilty of mortal sin or not can be saved?

I say they can't. Anyone disagree?

Ladislaus · « **Reply #54 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:41:24 AM »

I never said that OP rejected EENS, Arvinger, just that the content of the post reveals the place from which EENS-rejection comes ... the emotions. I usually choose my words carefully. He stated that he was struggling with it because of these emotional reasons. But emotion does not equal theology.

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #55 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:06:04 AM »

Quote

I accept it 100% but its still hard and brings me a lot of despair considering that 100% of my old "friends" are not traditional catholics.

It seemed the OP was under the impression that only Traditional Catholics can be saved. It does not seem he was despairing only for those in mortal sin.

My point that a significant number of people are considered damned in regards to the Feeney invention of "No Salvation Apart from Water" even if they do not die guilty of mortal sin but in a state of sanctifying grace is a legitimate one.

He went against what the Church taught and causes great chaos and dissension 'til this day.

We all agree with the Church that no one who dies guilty of mortal sin can be saved. But some who post here disagree with the Church that non-members who can be saved within the Church.

All that being said it is quite true that very few people appear to be in a state of sanctifying grace and that certainly can be depressing.

Arvinger · « **Reply #56 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:01:33 PM »

Quote from: Ladislaus

I never said that OP rejected EENS, Arvinger, just that the content of the post reveals the place from which EENS-rejection comes ... the emotions. I usually choose my words carefully. He stated that he was struggling with it because of these emotional reasons. But emotion does not equal theology.

Well, it looks like he was able to keep his emotion apart from his theology. Unfortunately, as you correctly point out, most of the "Cushingites" can't do this, which results in their belief of salvation of people in false religion, salvation without faith in Christ and the Trinity, salvation without sacraments etc. One of the sedevacantist priests said he "refues to believe that hell is their [non-Catholics of good faith] eternal destiny".

Ladislaus · « **Reply #57 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:06:33 PM »

Quote from: Lover of Truth

Feeney invention of "No Salvation Apart from Water" even if they do not die guilty of mortal sin but in a state of sanctifying grace is a legitimate one.

So you repeat your slander against Father Feeney and also continue to heretically state that salvation can be had without the Sacrament of Baptism (the matter of which is water).

Even in the case of BoD (if you believe it in the Thomistic sense, vs. your heretical view), people receive the Sacrament in voto and are never saved without the Sacrament, which by definition entails matter and form(water). So people are never saved without the water of Baptism. While it's true that no water is poured physically onto their heads, your formulation of being saved "apart from water" is patently heretical. You need to rephrase that to say that people can be saved without water actually being poured onto their heads. To state that people are saved apart from water is to reject the necessity of the SACRAMENT of Baptism for salvation (as dogmatically defined by Trent).

Lover of Truth · « **Reply #58 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:10:49 PM »

No Salvation Apart From Water is a new dogma Feeney invented and the disobedient prelate is the cause of great chaos even until this day.

Matto · « **Reply #59 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:44:05 PM »

I feel similar to how the OP felt. I think nearly everyone I know is going to hell and when I think about it it makes me sad. I was going to make a longer post with details of how I felt and believed but after I typed it I thought it would cause controversy so I decided not to post it.