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Author Topic: Possible strict-EENS chapel  (Read 240271 times)

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Offline Angelus

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #275 on: December 14, 2025, 02:46:57 PM »


I'd much rather be ignorant of eschatology than be so "knowledgeable" of it that I end up denying EENS, the necessity of Baptism, Christ's Redemption of mankind on the Cross, Original Sin Dogma, and Justification Dogma

Ultimately, and we are back to the "beginning" once again:

You believe there is salvation outside of the Church

You do, in fact, believe that the invincibly ignorant who die in their ignorance will attain the Beatific Vision..after 10+ pages of saying "it ain't so"

You do not believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation

You do not believe that the Sacraments in general are necessary for salvation

You do not believe that holding even a single article of the Catholic Faith is necessary for salvation

You do not believe that Christ, having offered Himself ONCE for the redemption of mankind, died for all (you posit that there will be a second "similar" redemption-like event at the Second Coming for those in limbo)

^^The above is probably the worst of them all, just incredibly blasphemous. As has already been explained to you, the REASON that the OT Just were in Limbo was because the Messiah had not yet come and redeemed mankind.

After the Redemption (only once (as in one (1) time) accomplished), there is no other redemption. It sufficed for not only the OT Just, but for mankind. There is no other "similar event" that will redeem the infants or invincibly ignorant in Limbo.

It is blasphemous and heretical for you to assert that there will be a second redemption-like event

Rather than accuse me of being "ignorant" of "Catholic eschatology", you should remove yourself from the study of it, considering the conclusions you draw from your research are diametrically opposed to simple Catholic Faith


Here are all three quotes from Pius IX again:


Singulari Quadam

"Faith orders Us to hold that out of the Apostolic Roman Church no person can be saved, that it is the only ark of salvation, and that whoever will not enter therein shall perish in the waters of the deluge. On the other hand it is necessary to hold for certain that ignorance of the true religion, if that ignorance be invincible, is not a fault in the eyes of God. But who will presume to arrogate to himself the right to mark the limits of such an ignorance, holding in account the various conditions of peoples, of countries, of minds, and of the infinite multiplicity of human things? When delivered from the bonds of the body, we shall see God as He is, we will comprehend perfectly by what admirable and indissoluble bond the divine mercy and the divine justice are united; but as long as we are upon the earth, bent under the weight of this mortal mass which overloads the soul, let us hold firmly that which the Catholic doctrine teaches us, that there is only one God, one Faith, one Baptism; to seek to penetrate further is not permitted."


Singulari Quidem

"The Church clearly declares that the only hope of salvation for mankind is placed in the Christian faith, which teaches the truth, scatters the darkness of ignorance by the splendor of its light, and works through love. This hope of salvation is placed in the Catholic Church which, in preserving the true worship, is the solid home of this faith and the temple of God. Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control."


Quanto Conficiamur Moerore

"Here, too, our beloved sons and venerable brothers, it is again necessary to mention and censure a very grave error entrapping some Catholics who believe that it is possible to arrive at eternal salvation although living in error and alienated from the true faith and Catholic unity. Such belief is certainly opposed to Catholic teaching. There are, of course, those who are struggling with invincible ignorance about our most holy religion. Sincerely observing the natural law and its precepts inscribed by God on all hearts and ready to obey God, they live honest lives and are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace. Because God knows, searches and clearly understands the minds, hearts, thoughts, and nature of all, his supreme kindness and clemency do not permit anyone at all who is not guilty of deliberate sin to suffer eternal punishments. Also well known is the Catholic teaching that no one can be saved outside the Catholic Church. Eternal salvation cannot be obtained by those who oppose the authority and statements of the same Church and are stubbornly separated from the unity of the Church and also from the successor of Peter, the Roman Pontiff, to whom “the custody of the vineyard has been committed by the Savior.”

Offline Angelus

  • Supporter
Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #276 on: December 14, 2025, 02:58:47 PM »


I'd much rather be ignorant of eschatology than be so "knowledgeable" of it that I end up denying EENS, the necessity of Baptism, Christ's Redemption of mankind on the Cross, Original Sin Dogma, and Justification Dogma

Ultimately, and we are back to the "beginning" once again:



You do, in fact, believe that the invincibly ignorant who die in their ignorance will attain the Beatific Vision..after 10+ pages of saying "it ain't so"

You do not believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation

You do not believe that the Sacraments in general are necessary for salvation

You do not believe that holding even a single article of the Catholic Faith is necessary for salvation

You do not believe that Christ, having offered Himself ONCE for the redemption of mankind, died for all (you posit that there will be a second "similar" redemption-like event at the Second Coming for those in limbo)

^^The above is probably the worst of them all, just incredibly blasphemous. As has already been explained to you, the REASON that the OT Just were in Limbo was because the Messiah had not yet come and redeemed mankind.

After the Redemption (only once (as in one (1) time) accomplished), there is no other redemption. It sufficed for not only the OT Just, but for mankind. There is no other "similar event" that will redeem the infants or invincibly ignorant in Limbo.

It is blasphemous and heretical for you to assert that there will be a second redemption-like event

Rather than accuse me of being "ignorant" of "Catholic eschatology", you should remove yourself from the study of it, considering the conclusions you draw from your research are diametrically opposed to simple Catholic Faith


Let's go through some of these again.

You said: "You believe there is salvation outside of the Church."

Pius IX said: "Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control."

----------

You said: "You do not believe that holding even a single article of the Catholic Faith is necessary for salvation."

Pius IX said: "...it is necessary to hold for certain that ignorance of the true religion, if that ignorance be invincible, is not a fault in the eyes of God."

So, what you accuse me of, Pius IX himself taught. I am guilty as charged for using Pope Pius IX as my rule of faith. 

Maybe you should consider replacing Leonard Feeney with Pope Pius IX as your own rule of faith. 




Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #277 on: December 14, 2025, 03:26:09 PM »
"Pius IX as my rule of faith"

Yeah, we know. Use the Church as your rule of faith, believe what She has taught through Her General Councils and ex cathedra papal teachings, and then apply it to what Pius IX wrote



Offline Angelus

  • Supporter
Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #278 on: December 14, 2025, 03:29:48 PM »
"Pius IX as my rule of faith"

Yeah, we know. Use the Church as your rule of faith, believe what She has taught through Her General Councils and ex cathedra papal teachings, and then apply it to what Pius IX wrote

Says the man who puts Leonard Feeney's interpretation of those teachings ABOVE the interpretation of Pius IX. 

Offline AnthonyPadua

  • Supporter
Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #279 on: December 14, 2025, 03:55:29 PM »
Says the man who puts Leonard Feeney's interpretation of those teachings ABOVE the interpretation of Pius IX.
That's Fr Feeney to you. And it wasn't his interpretation but simply what the Church teaches.