Now, finally, I think I might have a clue why don't understand me. You don't understand what "paradise" is.
You quoted my words below (which I stand by 100% BTW):
"not all who are outside the Church will burn in hell forever and never make it to paradise"
Then you went on a rant, mocking me:
"Erm, but I actually proposed limbo for them, but I also said they can be saved, but not like 'salvation' saved, but actually yes salvation but not like the Saints salvation, because only those who go straight to heaven can be said to have 'salvation', but those who die outside the Church can make it to paradise, but not like actual paradise, but they can also get to heaven, but remember I actually said limbo so you're wrong to call me a heretic".
To be clear, I never said they went to Heaven. At least I don't remember saying that. If I said it, it was a mistake. But I certainly said that they go to paradise. And paradise is just another name for the Limbus Patrum or Abraham's Bosom.
The problem is you apparently think Paradise = Heaven. This is your error. Paradise is absolutely not Heaven.
In reality, Paradise = Limbo of the Fathers = Abraham's Bosom
Abrahams Bosom was "Paradise"
because Christ descended into it.
Because of Christ's presence. Christ is
not present in any region of Hell now, or ever again. No one, in any region of Hell, is in "Paradise" now, or ever again.
However, not all who are outside the Church will burn in Hell forever and never make it to Paradise. In fact, even most Catholics will suffer "the fires of Hell" in Purgatory for a long time before entering Paradise
You say those outside the Church can enter Paradise, you say Catholics enter Paradise. Crazy
Yes, those outside the Church who remain in their state of sin by rejecting Christ and His Church at the time of their death "cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Ever." Agreed
But people in those categories can make an act of Perfect Contrition to God directly before their death can be justified by that act. They will not go to Heaven directly. They will need to expiate their sins. Where do they do that?
"Those categories" being Pagans, Jews, Heretics, Schismatics. You say they can all be justified by an act of perfect contrition and enter
Heaven, after their sins are expiated
Don't worry, the barbarian hordes are not going to overrun the Pearly Gates. Most people do not keep the natural law. Most people (Catholics included) only keep the divine law because they are afraid of going to Hell
I suppose "Pearly Gates" here doesn't mean "heaven" either. "Most people", meaning some do.
Yes, a person who is aware of the Catholic faith (i.e., one that is not invincibly ignorant) must believe the Catholic faith to be saved
You make no distinction between the manner of "saved" a Catholic is, and the alleged manner of "saved" the invincibly ignorant can be
I think it would be the most fitting abode for the "invincibly ignorant" until Christ's Second Coming, as Abraham's Bosom performed a very similar function prior to Christ's Resurrection.
You say the invincibly ignorant will only be in the "limbo"
until Christ's Second Coming. And then compare Abrahams Bosom to it as a "very similar function". Those in Abraham's Bosom went to
Heaven after the Resurrection. What is the conclusion a normal person would draw from what you're saying here? Where do you think those alleged "invincibly ignorant" go
after Christ's Second Coming?
Because as Pius IX says those with "invincible ignorance about our most holy religion...are able to attain eternal life by the efficacious virtue of divine light and grace."
You misinterpret Pius IX, and believe that the invincibly ignorant can die while invincibly ignorant about the Church and Faith and attain eternal life. "Eternal life", oh, that's the Beatific Vision, as has always been taught. So you do believe they can be "saved"
You cannot even deny that you actually believe such people can enter Heaven (Or the Kingdom of God, or Paradise, or enjoy the Beatific Vision, etc.), because you believe they can be justified. Your words:
So these gentiles (those outside) were converted to the faith (justified) not by hearing about religious laws, whether true ones or false ones. Rather, by were converted to the true faith (justified) by the grace of Christ helping them to obey the natural law written on their hearts.
They voluntarily cooperated with the divine grace. It doesn't matter what religion they may have been surrounded by. God chose those people and gave them special graces to come to the true faith. Note he did not say they came to the Church. Remember, these people are described as gentiles (those outside).
Trent, on Justification:
This disposition, or preparation, is followed by Justification itself, which is not remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man, through the voluntary reception of the grace, and of the gifts, whereby man of unjust becomes just, and of an enemy a friend, that so he may be an heir according to hope of life everlasting
Those justified become heirs according to hope of
life everlasting Or should we play some more word games and say Trent doesn't mean Heaven, the Beatific Vision, when it says 'life everlasting"?
Read the Athanasian Creed. Believe it. Profess it
"Whoever
wills to be
saved, before all things it is necessary that he holds the catholic faith. Unless a person keeps this faith whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish eternally."
The "invincibly ignorant" who, despite their invincible ignorance, you believe can "attain eternal life" (some would call this "saved"), do not hold the Catholic faith. They cannot even
will to be saved as they are, while alive
2 Corinthians 4:3 And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost
I'm not entertaining your BS anymore