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Author Topic: Possible strict-EENS chapel  (Read 238604 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #355 on: January 29, 2026, 05:31:35 PM »
According to non-Feeneyites, the problem is Feeneyites not understanding a particular dogma as the Church understands it.

Yeah, yeah ... this is a form of gaslighting typically applied by the BoDers, where they claim that their understanding of the dogma is the same as how "the Church understands it" ... as if they speak for and on behalf of the Church.

Sure, the Church "understands" EENS as meaning ... the OPPOSITE of what the words in the dogmatic definition actually say.  When the Church says that can be no salvtation outside the Church, well, unless you say that there CAN in fact be salvation outside the Church, then you're the heretic and don't truly understand the meaning of "not" and "is".

Ridiciulous.  This "Church's understanding" is nearly always cover and bunk, a tactic the Modernists use to UNDERMINE the Church's understanding and replacing it with their own.

Offline Gray2023

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #356 on: January 29, 2026, 06:08:17 PM »
So ... as usual, it's never about logic for the promoters of BoD.  They've made up their mind beforehand what they want to believe for various ulterior motives.

... as if the Baltimore Catechism were infallible and is the equivalent of the "Church teaching".

Msgr. Fenton takes apart the Baltimore Catechism on the subject of salvation.

We have here someone who's bought into the sedevacantist narrative where they make this statement that "[t]he Church cannot teach error" into some absolute, which renders nonsensical any definition of papal infallibility, making it so that an allocution given by a Pope might as well have been a solemn dogmatic definition, such as that of the Immaculate Conception.

This individual goes so far as to claim this of the Baltimore Catechism, rendering the mindset more and more ridiculouser as she progresses, and I've even encountered a sedevacantists who claimed that any book with an imprimatur on it must be regarded as error free, and protected from error.

Now, this attitude leads to bizarre psychological problems and neuroses.
Ladislaus, I am honestly asking questions which are not being answered.

Let's start with this simple question how long has this error of BoD and BoB (from your perspective, I have not decided on the issue yet) been popping up in Catechisms.  This is what has been taught to converts and children for 100+ years.  If this is the case, then no wonder V2 was able to do what it did.

I still think that we really don't have to get down to the nitty-gritty on this topic because  if you approach everyone as if they need to be baptized by water to be saved, then there is nothing more to be discussed.



Offline Gray2023

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Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #357 on: January 29, 2026, 06:18:41 PM »
So ... as usual, it's never about logic for the promoters of BoD.  They've made up their mind beforehand what they want to believe for various ulterior motives.

... as if the Baltimore Catechism were infallible and is the equivalent of the "Church teaching".

Msgr. Fenton takes apart the Baltimore Catechism on the subject of salvation.

We have here someone who's bought into the sedevacantist narrative where they make this statement that "[t]he Church cannot teach error" into some absolute, which renders nonsensical any definition of papal infallibility, making it so that an allocution given by a Pope might as well have been a solemn dogmatic definition, such as that of the Immaculate Conception.

This individual goes so far as to claim this of the Baltimore Catechism, rendering the mindset more and more ridiculouser as she progresses, and I've even encountered a sedevacantists who claimed that any book with an imprimatur on it must be regarded as error free, and protected from error.

Now, this attitude leads to bizarre psychological problems and neuroses.
Also for someone who is constantly being misjudged and called names and such, I would think you would especially refrain.

Offline Gray2023

  • Supporter
Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #358 on: January 30, 2026, 12:58:10 PM »
Ladislaus, I am honestly asking questions which are not being answered.

Let's start with this simple question how long has this error of BoD and BoB (from your perspective, I have not decided on the issue yet) been popping up in Catechisms.  This is what has been taught to converts and children for 100+ years.  If this is the case, then no wonder V2 was able to do what it did.

I still think that we really don't have to get down to the nitty-gritty on this topic because  if you approach everyone as if they need to be baptized by water to be saved, then there is nothing more to be discussed.
Bump.  I want to hear what you, Ladislaus or anyone else, have to say on this.  I like to get to the heart of the matter.  It didn't start with Father Feeney.  It started before him. Who first started talking about BoB and BoD in the Catholic Church? I assure you that I have no preconceived notion or point I am trying to make. 

Re: Possible strict-EENS chapel
« Reply #359 on: January 30, 2026, 01:26:03 PM »
I recommend reading Desire & Deception: How Catholics Stopped Believing

It traces the history of the idea of Baptism of Desire and shows how belief in EENS was eroded over time.

It's also available in paperback from https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0984236511/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0984236511&linkCode=as2&tag=httpwwwchanco-20